Rob and Zack discuss the upcoming Hackathon and Conference in San Francisco next month, Block.One developing an EOSIO educational curriculum at a major university, and how Peter Thiel's strategic experience and influence benefits B1.
Check out the video and transcript below!
EOS Scaling Blockchain Conference: http://bit.ly/ScalingBlockchain
Elemental Battles: https://battles.eos.io
Peter Thiel Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h10kX...
PARSL Airdrop: https://t.me/parslio
EOSYS dApp Contest: https://medium.com/eosys/the-1st-dapp...
Everything EOS is a podcast hosted by Rob Finch (Cypherglass) and Zack Gall (ICO Alert) that follows the EOS ecosystem: dApp spotlights, VC partnerships, announcements, and more!
Zack: Welcome to the 29th edition of Everything EOS, I'm Zack Gall, our in-house EOS connoisseur here at ICO Alert, the trusted ICO discovery platform. Visit icoalert.com, the most complete calendar of all active and upcoming ICOs. And I'm here today with the founder and CEO of Block Producer Cypherglass, Rob Finch.
Rob: Thank you all so much for joining us for yet another episode of Everything EOS. We sincerely appreciate all the feedback, all the love, all the comments that we get on YouTube and SoundCloud every time. So please keep leaving those. It lets us know that we're doing a good job, that you like what you're doing so please remember to like, comment, or subscribe on YouTube, iTunes, SoundCloud, or wherever you may be listening.
Zack: And as a reminder, if you're still listening on iTunes or on Google Podcast, we are doing video format on YouTube, just search for Everything EOS. We should be some of the first results. As a reminder, if you enjoy the content, other people might enjoy it too so please like, comment, and subscribe.
Rob: Smash that like button.
Zack: Smash the like button.
Rob: Smash it.
Zack: Somebody messaged me on telegram and said they smashed it.
Rob: Did they?
Zack: Yeah, it's working, so.
Rob: Before we get started, I do need to mention that this podcast is not sponsored. Zack Gall and I are just two excited members of the EOS community discussing our opinions on this open source software. Now, please throughout this podcast, do not take our opinions as legal, financial, tax, professional or any other kind of advice; like I said, we're just expressing our opinions, and as a matter of disclosure, we do both own EOS tokens.
Zack: On today's podcast, we're gonna be discussing the upcoming events surrounding the global hackathon next month in San Francisco.
Rob: Oh yeah.
Zack: Some ongoing contests where you can win some extra EOS for yourself. Recent CPU issues on the network, and an awesome new educational tool released by Block.One this morning.
Rob: Let's get to it.
Zack: Alright, let's go.
Rob: So hopping into it, we obviously have the two big events coming up. We have the new EOS Hackathon happening in San Francisco on November 10 and 11, but there's something happening after it, which is the scaling blockchain conference on November 12 in San Francisco just I think, what is it, a mile away from the Hackathon?
Zack: It's very close, yeah. So last week whenever we talked, we said that the venue wasn't announced yet for the Hackathon. So, because of doing this Podcast, I actually got to break the news that the venue is selected, because we record this show on Thursdays, so I put together what we were going to talk about, and one of the things was that there wasn't a venue yet. So then I went to do a screen recording the next morning, all of a sudden the venue is there. So the venue has been selected for the Hackathon, it's a place called the Village in San Francisco. It's 17,000 square feet, three floors, with a maximum capacity of 1100 people.
Rob: Yeah, and if you guys noticed that after the London Hackathon, Block.One tweeted out "Hey, this is the biggest Hackathon we've ever done, maybe the biggest Hackathon in crypto at that point." Was less than 500 people, so 1100 people puts us at two, almost two and a half times what happened in London. So we'll see if they fill it up. I have a feeling they will. It's going to be an interesting time.
Zack: Has there been any news or anything about ticket sales? Because someone told me that the entrepreneur tickets were sold out, but that wasn't true. I talked to someone yesterday who just bought more.
Rob: I think they were sold out temporarily, but then after they secured this larger venue, they decided to sell more. As an exciting announcement though, if you're going to be at the San Francisco Hackathon, and you're participating, I am officially now one of the EOS mentors who's going to be there mentoring you, answering your questions, giving you advice on your projects. So if you're there, you're hacking away, feel free to find me. I'll have a white T-shirt or hoodie that says "EOS mentor," on it. So I'm super, super excited about that.
Rob: Huge shout out to the guys at SVK Crypto. Shane was really able to hook that up and allow me to become a mentor, so thank you guys for making that possible.
Zack: Speaking of reminders, don't you have another reminder of one of your contests you have going on?
Rob: Yes, so that HallowEOS contest that we launched here on the Podcast last week that challenged you to submit your EOS themed pumpkin carving. First place prize 200 EOS, second place prize 100 EOS, third place prize 50 EOS. We have our first few submissions that we'll put up on the screen here now. Some really creative submissions, but now I think we have maybe two, maybe three total submissions, so all those people right now are basically guaranteed to win. So if you're out there, you're looking at a chance to win 200 EOS, that's 1000 plus dollars for first place. Get out there, buy yourself a $5 pumpkin and a knife and go to town, carve something.
Zack: Yeah, I still have to do mine. I'm not really trying to win the contest. I don't think it would be fair to win, but I do want to do a pumpkin. My plan, I showed you what I wanted to carve, but I was interested in the one you had submitted yesterday or whenever that one where they kind of did an artistic take on it rather than carving holes into the pumpkin, they kind of carved divets in it and painted it and stuff.
Rob: I thought it was interesting that they found a white pumpkin too, which I had not seen. So ...
Zack: A little bit different. Maybe they're switching it up. We'll see. So far those people are in the first and second place spots. Obviously we need more people to enter to give them a challenge, so your odds are good right now if you enter.
Rob: So let's get back to EOS technology stuff. The CPU issues. So what was going on? The whole network was all clogged up. It was really hard. I couldn't send a transaction. I have a decent amount of EOS staked.
Zack: So it was crazy. So due to popularity in some recent games on EOS, notably EOS Bet, BitDice, some other ones, there were a huge amount of transactions happening that used the CPU power on the EOS network. Now what was happening was after a certain period of time, after allowing BitDice and other people who were playing the game to surge beyond their allocation of CPU and send as many transactions as they needed, the network freaked out and went into congestion mode. It said "Wait a minute, wait a minute, I'm giving these people too many transactions. Let me back it up. Back it up."
Zack: So then all of a sudden no one, including BitDice for a while or any of the other apps, could send any transactions, because they were so far beyond the amount of CPU allocated to them.
Rob: Yeah, I saw it on one of the telegram channel, BitDice News made a post and they said "As most of you guys are already aware, the network is experiencing unusually high activity. As a result, CPU availability is very low, and even with nearly 2 million EOS staked, we're having difficulty providing consistent service. We commend you for helping us push EOS to its absolute limits, and we hope this will expedite the EOS network as a whole.
Zack: So that's crazy because from what I understood was BitDice, EOS Dice, they have millions of EOS staked, they ran out of computation. And users, it's pretty typical for them to run out of computation because we don't know what they will have staked, but that's where great services like CPU emergency come and they let you kind of rent or lease out some extra CPU for 24 hours. And even they were out of bandwidth.
Rob: Yeah [crosstalk 00:06:40] they ran out of EOS.
Zack: Everyone was panicking. It was like to a crawl. So what happened that they got fixed so quick?
Rob: So it got fixed in less than 24 hours. And this just kind of shows the power of EOS governance. So a bunch of other block producers around the world got together and started looking at "Hey, what's going on here? Obviously at 20-30 transactions per second, we're nowhere near the 4000 that the EOS maintenance has done. What's going on?"
Rob: So as they started to diagnose the problem, they realized there was a variable in the EOS network code that essentially put the network into this panic congestion mode after just I believe ten percent of the total CPU was used. So it was artificially limiting itself to one tenth of the total CPU capacity for everybody and sort of jolted the network. So what happened was the block producers got together, they did a vote, 15 out of the top 21 voted to approve it, and now that number has increased from one tenth to two tenths. So you would think this would just double everyone's CPU, but it's actually increased everybody's CPU by about eight times, 800%. And this is just the first of ten changes we can make to the EOS code to make CPU more and more and more efficient and allow it to process more transactions.
Zack: [crosstalk 00:07:47] So who was the block producer that kind of discovered the fix and put the proposal together?
Rob: So EOS Rio put the proposal out. I do have to give a huge shout out to EOS New York for going out there, educating the community about this issue, letting them know they solved it. I retweeted a bunch of their tweets recently. But EOS Rio was the one that put that proposal out there, and I think some others I'm sure were working behind the scenes with them to solve that issue. So huge shout out to those guys. They're doing their job for sure.
Zack: So was that last week or the week before that the unregistered account proposal got passed. That was another big issue.
Rob: Yeah, so that was the week before where ArgentinEOS actually came out and saved almost 20,000 EOS accounts. These are people that forgot to register before the main net went live, and thought they had lost their EOS, but ArgentinEOS found a way to go in.
Zack: They put a proposal out and the block producers approved it. Now...
Rob: And now if you have your theory and private key from that wallet that held your EOS tokens before the main net launched, you can basically prove ownership of it with that theory and private key ...
Zack: Like a transaction.
Rob: Exactly. And then boom, you get access to the EOS tokens on the main net. So congrats to the 20,000 people out there.
Zack: I just think it's so cool how problems get solved so quickly because you can imagine on ... Bitcoin did pretty good though with that bug fix about a month ago that they could have wiped out the entire network.
Rob: Could have allowed people to just make Bitcoin.
Zack: But I'm always impressed with how well the blog producers are on top of stuff. I'm even more impressed that it sounds like this is coming out of some of the standby blog producers. So they're adding incredible value to the network, and they're not even in the top 21.
Rob: Think about it, if you're outside the top 21, I think now you need 80 million votes just to hit that 21st space, so people below that are doing anything they can do whether it's coming out with new tools for the community or helping fix issues like this. I think it's great to see all the blog producers working together, whether you're in the top 21 or not. They're coming together and finding solutions.
Zack: So, I want to give a shout out to Liquid EOS. So I was asking if this is the same problem. So on a low-high EOS, they have a CPU benchmarks tool. We've talked about it before and it kind of shows you how well the blog producers are performing with their CPU. And there were a couple of nodes, a couple of blog producers that were not performing up to par. So that was a different issue. Wanna explain that a little bit?
Rob: Yeah. So it was all related to CPU, but essentially when this artificial congestion issue started happening, all these people who were playing the game started going out and saying "Wait a minute, let's go after the blog producers who are inefficient on CPU right now." And it was Liquid EOS, it was coaching world who still hasn't fixed their problem, and one other, I forget their name, but they actually ended up fixing their CPU issue. But what happened was some of these people had not upgraded to Wabbit from Wossam, which is just a ...
Zack: Silly Wabbit.
Rob: Silly Wabbit, Trix are for kids! It's a little piece of the EOS code that basically processes CPU and processes transactions, and it makes it two times more efficient.
Zack: So the reason I wanted to give a shout out to Liquid EOS was they actually took their node down temporarily while they fixed the issue, which is basically giving out block producer awards for the betterment of the entire network because their goal is to speed it up by taking themselves out of the mix, but I think you said there was another blog producer that didn't do that?
Rob: Yeah, so Cochain World did not do that. There was another blog producer that actually just fixed the issue online, but huge shout out to Liquid EOS for forgoing those block awards, for pulling themselves out of the top 21 to make sure the network was faster while they got their stuff in order.
Zack: I don't think they were offline for long. I see they're back to the top 21 now. So everything's good, but that's awesome.
Rob: Yeah, when you unreg like that and you pull yourself out, you're basically just hiding yourself on the network, you still retain your votes and everything, so as soon as they switch back in, boom, the votes are there.
Zack: I think with all this talk about what these blog producers are doing, especially the backup ones, I think we need to go into the same spiel we gave last week about participation and explaining how the rewards are distributed to the non-top 21. You want to kind of give that piece again?
Rob: So many people come to me and say "Hey, I have 5 EOS. Hey, I have 10 EOS, 50 EOS, so I'm not voting. My vote doesn't count." And they think that because there are people out there with a million EOS or 2 million EOS, or however many EOS is more than 10 EOS they hold, they just assume their vote doesn't count. But what so many people don't know is that the way blog producers, and in particular standby blog producers are paid on the EOS is based on the amount of votes they get. So if you take your ten votes and you give them to a standby blog producer, that blog producer is now going to make more money because of your votes. So you have a direct impact on the amount of money that blog producers are making, and thus the amount of money that they can reinvest back into the ecosystem that they can take to pay people to fix issues like this. So every vote really does count and I highly encourage you if you haven't voted yet, please get out there and vote for blog producers, especially ones that are maybe underdogs, maybe out of the top 21 right now.
Zack: Alright, so that's some good news. Let's get into some bad news. I didn't have time to research this as much, but you mentioned the EOS farm issues. So you want to get into that? Because I'm not real familiar with what happened.
Rob: So as with any sort of craze, you're going to see all kinds of competitors and copycats pop up. After EOS Bet was successful, then we had BitDice come out. Now that BitDice is kind of taking the lead, a new gambling platform popped up on EOS I think yesterday. [crosstalk 00:12:44]
Zack: I found out about them because you know how you randomly get added to all these telegram groups all the time? I randomly got added to EOS farm along with like thousands of other people and everyone's like "What is this? How did I get in this group?" And they probably just scraped user lists from some of the other EOS groups.
Rob: I'm sure. It popped up out of nowhere and was basically a way to very similar to BitDice, hey you can mine these tokens, then the tokens pay you dividends of the total profit. It's a cool system when it actually works and it has been working really well for BitDice. But on EOS farm, it turned out -- and this was all discovered within a 24 hour period of them going from zero to 2 million EOS in volume.
Rob: They said they were giving out tokens, but they weren't giving out tokens. They're contract did not distribute them, the token did not exist. It was only stored in their own central server, and on top of that, they publish their house edge as 1.5%, but was actually closer to 3% or 5% when people did tests. So they were just stealing money from people betting and not even giving them tokens. So it was really a crazy situation. Now the volume is plummeted. My heart goes out to people who did lose money on EOS farm. It only lasted about 24 hours, but you gotta be careful when new games with new dApps pop up, before you go sending a bunch of money, maybe wait a little while and make sure it's legit as some of these other competitors have sort of proven themselves.
Zack: Yeah, I didn't know that there was an issue, I just know that yesterday ... I'm looking now, they're still number 5 though, on dApp radar.
Rob: Yeah, it's because their 24 hour volume and user statistics are rolling, so over the next 10-12 hours, as this video goes out, they're going to be completely off this list.
Zack: Yeah, it's showing already -50% volume, so I'm sure like you said, over a couple more hours ...
Rob: But it's crazy, they weren't even giving out real tokens, which I thought was ... I was surprised that it lasted for the 24 hours, as long as it did, with their contract you can very clearly see on the blog chain, not giving out any farm tokens.
Zack: Just kept playing. Wow.
Rob: Yeah, they just kept playing. It's wild.
Zack: Oh, man. So now let's get back to the good news. This morning, it's Thursday when we record this, Block.One put out a tweet announcing a new development tool specifically geared towards game developers called Elemental Battles. And you actually already signed up this morning. I didn't have time. Tell me about your experience, and by the time this comes out we probably have some cool video to show people too.
Rob: Yeah so it's pretty cool. It's basically a tutorial that takes you through creating a P to P, like a versus card game. So if you've ever played Hearthstone, that game you know you can download an app from Blizzard, and you're sort of playing a card game against each other like you would with Pokemon or Yugio or Magic the Gathering. But it takes you through what it takes and what commands you'll be using, what code you'll be using in EOS to actually build a game like this on top of the EOSIO platform. So you can not only go through I think that 8-10 step process of building the game yourself if you're a developer and you can code, but you can also just play the game, which I thought was pretty cool.
Zack: Oh, that's cool.
Rob: Yeah, so I went through, I made an account, I played the game for a little bit. I was actually impressed for this being a demo with the sort of professional quality of the graphics. Like it looks like they went out and commissioned somebody to make all these graphics and make the card design, and they're really taking it seriously. But I think the fact that Block.One came out with a tutorial that's not only just a tutorial to your point about making a dApp, but it's a tutorial about a game shows where their head is at where things like BitDice, things like EOS Bet are getting so much traction on EOS that gaming maybe the first killer app in general that runs on EOS.
Zack: We talked about that last week. You told me about your experience with high fidelity ... these second life type games that is literally life to some people, you figure how do you transmit value in a virtual world and have it verifiable. This is exactly what we've been talking about what we want to happen in the real world, but it might happen in the virtual world first.
Rob: That's so interesting.
Zack: Yeah, so the one piece that stood out for me in the medium blog article that Block.One put out is "Since the release of EOSIO in June, Block.One has turned its focus to driving mass adoption of blockchain technology. Having delivered for users in terms of transaction speeds, transparency and ease of use, we believe the platform is poised to scale blockchain to the next level. A key pillar in that mission is to simplify the developer experience and create toolkits to make blockchain development more familiar to programmers from other disciplines."
Zack: We've talked about this so many times how to reach a mass adoption of blockchain technology in general, whether it's on EOS or Etherium, or some other platform, we have to expand our developers beyond just converting Etherium developers into an EOSIO developer.
Zack: We need to take like the University system and turn computer science into blockchain developers right out of college.
Zack: And that brings me to a very interesting point with what's going on in Blacksburg, Virginia at the Block.One office that Dan Larimer is the head of. So any developer, usually the first place to start is the developer portal, which Block.One's been maintaining and updating throughout this entire process. That's at developers.EOS.IO. That's where you'll get your introduction to building on EOS in addition to the Elemental Battles game that was just released this morning. But I don't think I'm alone here whenever I typically ask myself "What is Block.One doing right now?" Because they're very quiet about things until they're ready to release. Dan drops his little tidbits in the telegram channels.
We can only guess what's going on. But, I sometimes will just randomly Google news search like Block.One to see if anything comes up that I haven't seen yet. And last week I actually came across an article from the local newspaper in Blacksburg, it's Roanoke.com. And they put an article about how Block.One recently upgraded their working space in Blacksburg, Virginia. They've always been located in an office park called the Virginia Tech Corporate Research Center. And that's in Blacksburg, Virginia. I guess they were in a small suite for the longest time, since probably the beginning of Block.One. And recently, and they wouldn't publicly announce the address, so I couldn't get a satellite map of it or anything, but they moved into another building that they purchased. So, they purchased this building, and it's 30,000 square feet of office space with a capacity for at least 200 employees.
Zack: So, this is happening right now in Blacksburg. From the article it said that they haven't moved in yet. They haven't put signage up yet. This article was from October 5th. But, it's currently the insides are being renovated.
Rob: That's awesome.
Zack: And this is where ... this is gonna be Dan's headquarters, essentially.
Rob: I like how they have it set up, where Dan ... he's in the U.S. He's in Blacksburg, Virginia. Brendan's over in Hong Kong, just heading up that team. It seems like they have a good dynamic going on. And I'm so curious to ... I would love to be a fly on the wall one day at Block.One and just see what's happening.
Zack: We kind of have a fly, or you have a fly.
Rob: I don't know, I mean-
Zack: He's not.
Rob: He can just say-
Zack: You stay in touch with Leo?
Rob: Leo Ribeiro is a developer who worked with us on-
Zack: I just followed him on Twitter today.
Zack: I saw ... I got recommended to him.
Rob: He's the creator of MonsterEOS which was the first dAPP to every launch on EOS. He helped us with a bunch of tools at Cypherglass. But since has moved on to a full-time job at Block.One. I asked him, "How are things going?" He says, "Oh, it's great. I'm having a lot of fun." But, he can't tell me anything beyond that, obviously.
Zack: Yeah, I'm sure that's day one of working at Block.One is everything's top secret.
Rob: It's all secret. Which is good. I mean, that's the way it should be.
Zack: That's interesting. So, I looked through his tweets, and he had a bunch of [inaudible 00:20:07] tweets. So, that makes sense now.
Rob: Block.One apparently has actually been helping him develop that further. So, while he's working at Block.One they're also helping him with his own project, which I think is awesome from a company perspective. So, they got a ... some game studio they got to partner with MonsterEOS. Now they have 3D monsters and you can do battles and ... The game's come a long way from where it was on launch day.
Zack: I was just about to say something about that, because you were saying how you're impressed with Elemental Battle, all of the graphics they're using, how it looks like a professional gaming studio essentially building it.
Zack: And now you're telling me that the developer that used to work for Cypherglass and helped with MonsterEOS, he's probably gonna continue with game work, you think?
Rob: It seems like it. I know that he's sort of working on MonsterEOS at the same time as part of his Block.One gig. But, he very well could be working on other games. I don't know. That would make a lot of sense.
Zack: So, I don't think anyone really knows how many Block.One employees they have in Blacksburg. I remember a while ago, and this is a couple months ago, Dan said they have over 50 devs currently.
Rob: Yeah, and then recently, this was the beginning of this month, and I don't know if this is true. It could just be hearsay. And Telegram said that they hade 100 employees in Blacksburg and 100 in Hong Kong. So, basically at any point in time they had 100 people working, since it's 12 and 12 with the time difference.
Zack: We know that they're hiring devs, and I can verify it because of the newspaper article that they just greatly enhanced their working space to facilitate these new employees. But, other public information is the Block.One careers webpage. There are almost 30 positions available between the Hong Kong office and the Virginia Tech office, and most of them are what you would expect, like Blockchain engineers, front engineers, back end engineers, all kinds of engineers. But, the position that stood out to me the most is that Block.One is looking to hire a Director of Education.
Zack: And in the job description, I'll just read it for the listeners, and if you're watching this on YouTube you could read it on screen with me. It says: Block.One aims to make Blacksburg the center of the universe for Blockchain thought leadership. And we want you to help build a world class Blockchain curriculum at the university level as well as for our internal and on-site partner education programs. We seek a unique individual who is passionate about Blockchain. Can work with multiple university departments, and also manage Block.One's education program. We plan this to be a major impact position in our local region, as well as the global Blockchain community.
Rob: Wow. That's cool.
Zack: Their responsibilities: manage university relationships with Block.One and the universities, advise university leadership regarding Blockchain curriculum across multiple schools, build the internal programs, define the curriculum.
Zack: So, basically what does a Blockchain curriculum look like at the university level? Because I've sat in on classes at Carnegie Mellon University, which is a great computer science program, and their Blockchain programs are coming along, and they're good compared to what else is out there. But, whatever Block.One is cooking up here, I feel like it's gonna blow away anything we've ever seen before because it's gonna provide a roadmap for universities to incorporate this new technology. Everyone knows that this is what's next, but how do we get from point A to point B? And I think it starts with developing the curriculum and bringing a very experienced individual to take on this Director of Education program.
Rob: It almost seems like, as we know Dan is an alumni of Virginia Tech. He came back. He did that, they have a $3 million grant that goes out to Virginia Tech to help expand their Blockchain curriculum. So, the more we learn it almost seems like that's their case study.
Zack: That is what they're doing.
Rob: To go in to Virginia Tech, one of the great STEM schools in the country. They go in, they build this Blockchain curriculum course, then they maybe hire some of the developers.
Zack: That's exactly, you just explained it. Okay, so in the job description they wanna make Blacksburg, Virginia the center of the universe for Blockchain thought leadership.
Rob: That's so cool.
Zack: So, think about what they're doing here. The very first Blockchain curriculum that's gonna be adopted is clearly gonna be Virginia Tech, because it's the local university. It's where Dan's an alumni from. And six months ago he gave a great seminar for Virginia Tech students and the community. So, they're gonna have this curriculum. And it sounds like they're also gonna build an in-house educational program that'll probably be open to people almost like Blockchain tourists come to Blacksburg and [crosstalk 00:24:34]
Zack: So, Block.One is expanding their developer resources, their employees in Blacksburg, Virginia. They're searching globally for this talent. But, how nice would it be in a couple of years when all of the talent's coming right out of Blacksburg. If you wanna be a leader in the next generation of the internet, the next technological revolution, you go to Virginia Tech, you take the Blockchain curriculum, which I would assume will be ready in a couple of years tops, probably I'd say two years would be a good estimate. Maybe next year, I don't know.
Rob: I mean, I don't know how long it takes-
Zack: But, you go there and you basically have job opportunities right there in Blacksburg for all of the technology, on top of the computer science that you just learned at the school.
Rob: Yeah, I gotta talk to my dad about this. My dad also went to Virginia Tech for an architectural degree. But I wanna see ... I know he gets alumni emails and stuff like that. I wonder if they've been sending him any info about this? I gotta check that out.
Zack: I don't know, but there's other positions they're hiring for. This is all to build up the education piece of this puzzle, because to reach mass adoption we need a mass network of developers able to build on this, because the only way that a Blockchain platform will be successful is to get that network effect where everyone wants to build on it. So, not only does Block.One and the community need to keep building out the EOSIO platform, but eventually there needs to be businesses migrating their business logic onto the Blockchain. And where are they gonna hire these developers from?
Rob: What the problem is right now, even with the amount of people trying to build on a Blockchain in general, or a Blockchain like EOS, there still aren't enough developers today. So, even today when the market is so tiny relative to what it could be in the future, there aren't enough developers. So, imagine to your point, all of a sudden you start getting major Fortune 500 companies building on this, and different local businesses, medium business-
Zack: We need talent.
Rob: ... international businesses. They're gonna need the people to hire and what better way than to make their own class and distribute that to Virginia Tech, and then maybe several hundred other colleges.
Zack: And on top of the curriculum at the university, like we just saw with the Elementals game that just came out, that's for online learning. The Block.One EOSIO Developer Portal is constantly being updated. And as far as other jobs outside of the Director of Education that stood out to me, was they're hiring for Developer Relations Advocates in both Hong Kong and Virginia. Developer Relations Support Agents, Developer Portal Contributors. And then a very interesting one that stood out to me was Block Producer, and this is unrelated to education, so let's get out of education. This one is just a really interesting position I came across, Block Producer Relations Account Manager.
Rob: Wow. Okay.
Zack: An official position at Block.One. You said, whenever I brought this up to you, you said something about Brendan's tweet recently, wanna explain that?
Rob: It makes a lot of sense. So, at the beginning of the ICO when Block.One is raising this four billion dollar amount and everything was happening, you could talk with Block.One if you were a potential Block producer and say, "Hey, what are the minimum requirements to run this open source software? Can you sort of give us some guidance on what's happening there?" And they would do that totally fine. But there was this firewall otherwise, in between where they weren't really allowed to talk to you, and you not allowed to talk to them for legal reasons. But, now that the community has launched her own chain, the EOS Mainnet, without the help of Block.One. And it's sort of independent from them, as it should be, it now seems like that tide is kind of shifting.
I saw a tweet recently from Brendan Blumer that said, "Hey, if you're an EOS Block producer, let the community know by replying to this tweet why they should vote for you." So, of course, [inaudible 00:28:22] responded, said, "Hey, you should vote for us because we support transparency, block producer independence, we've funded things like Ledger Support and have other cool stuff coming. He liked the tweet. He liked a bunch of other block producer tweets. But, it seems they really are gearing up to finally vote for block producers. We're seeing the amount of stake tokens on the network going to about 55%, with Rex's proposal potentially being really soon, we could see that number of voters go from 20% up to maybe that 55% staked when people can actually earn money from voting for Block Producers.
Rob: So, at that point, they'll be in a position to be a minority token holder, actually go out and cast their vote. And what better way to sort of determine which Block Producers to vote for, than tweeting out and asking the community. Seeing which tweet gets the most likes, and Retweets and love. But also having a Block Producer Relations Account Manager that can interface with all the different Block Producers, see what they're up to, if they need help. I'm pretty excited about this.
Zack: Especially with, it seems like they've changed the narrative to thousands of side chains and sister chains, whatever you wanna call them. So, there's gonna be so many different EOSIO chains that from a regulatory standpoint, how could any government say, "Okay, this is your chain." They didn't launch it, and there's thousands just like it?
Rob: Yeah, you can imagine that the EOS Mainnet sort of becomes this central hub of all these different chains. And then, you have thousands of individual chains, maybe one is to run a decentralized exchange. Maybe another is to run another big app that needs the throughput. Maybe another one is a KYC chain for financial applications like Warbly, and these are all connected back to the EOS Mainnet. And from a user’s perspective feels like you're using one giant chain, but it allows you to do so much, and have different constitutions on different side chains, and really experiment with different governance models amongst the chains in the ecosystem.
Zack: I left this out of the notes. Did you see the Dan tweet about the wallet? How it'll allow transfers between all EOSIO chains? I gotta find-
Rob: One account, all chains. It [crosstalk 00:30:12]
Zack: I'll have to pull the graphic up. I don't have it in front of me right now.
Rob: And I think it's so important, because if you create a side chain system where we do have a thousand different EOS sidechains all linked together. The only way that's ever gonna be successful and ever going to work, is if from a user's perspective you can seamlessly move between them without even really knowing you're moving between them. So, I can use a dApp on this chain, and I can use an exchange on this chain, and I can store my tokens on the main EOS chain. But, from my perspective I'm just using one big chain and I don't have to migrate my tokens from one side chain to the other. It just sort of happens for me.
Rob: So, I think something like that through their wallet, and then other wallets in the future, like Scatter which has multi-chain support already. That is really crucial to this thing ever being successful and ever being possible to hit the mainstream.
Zack: So, with thousands of chains, the Mainnet is the only one I know of that Block.One is gonna have that 10% stake of. I think Telos completely-
Rob: They cut them out.
Zack: How's Warbly doing? They're airdropping, but is it based on how many tokens people hold?
Rob: Yeah, it's a one-to-one to EOS participants. However, I don't think ... so they came out, we said initially when we were talking about Warbly that-
Zack: Yeah, it's always confusing how they handle Block.One's tokens and then Exchange tokens.
Rob: So, I don't think Block.One gets tokens. All the Exchanges I do believe get tokens. It's one-to-one, but you can only claim all of your tokens if you go through a KYC process. I think you can claim two-thirds of them without KYC.
Zack: Yeah, that's what I saw, too.
Rob: But then, if you want that last third, if you're like, "Oh, I gotta get these.", you have to go through KYC within a year, otherwise I think you lose those tokens.
Zack: Which I have no problem with.
Rob: Yeah, I mean that's fair. I think they're giving people enough time. I don't have a problem with Warbly, and I honestly think it will be beneficial to the EOS ecosystem in the long run. We at Cypherglass are just not going out and producing for Warbly, because one of our core tenets is decentralization. And Warbly is by design and by intent, incredibly centralized with their own appointed block producers. They're not voted in. So, it would be hypocritical I think for Cypherglass to produce for Warbly when we're so big on decentralization.
Zack: Fair enough. I think the more information they've been putting out there, the better and more appealing it seems to me. I liked it from the get go, from I think the first time heard of them was EOS New York put out a tweet that they were gonna produce for them. But, the more and more I see the better it looks, especially as a fiat on-ramp.
Zack: Because if you could have a frictionless fiat on-ramp, even if you need KYC, from there those tokens could be swapped with Mainnet tokens, Sidechain tokens, any tokens if they could all interface with that Block.One wallet and go chain to chain. That's basically an on-ramp to the Mainnet via Sidechain Warbly.
Rob: And that's why side chains are so important. And it's why it's so important that these chains that are launching with the intention of being side chains, or sister chains as some people are calling them, it's important that Warbly actually follows through and links with the Mainnet. I think it will not only help them, but help the EOS ecosystem in the long run to then really be that fiat on-ramp.
Rob: And we may even see networks that are currently forks, like Telos, become side chains in the future, where if you want your own governance system that complies with Telos's rules, you can go live on their side chain if you want and only come visit the Mainnet occasionally. So, it'll be really cool to see some of these projects come back and end up linking together, that were previously going to be forks.
Zack: So, you mentioned you wanted to talk about Peter Thiel a little bit.
Zack: Let's first introduce everyone to who he is and how he got affiliated with Block.One. Let's go back a few months.
Rob: So, Peter Thiel, T-H-I-E-L, is sort of a renowned venture capitalist investor in the tech world. He's most famous, I think, for founding PayPal alongside Elon Musk and the rest of the quote unquote PayPal Mafia. He went out, they sold PayPal for several billion dollars. He then took that money, invested in the company called Palantir, which is this crazy data science company that now has these huge multi-billion dollar government contracts with the U.S. government to track down terrorists, prevent money laundering, stuff like that. But, most recently he was the first investor in Facebook, made several more billion dollars doing that with his initial investment.
Zack: Billions and billions.
Rob: But, over the last couple of years has come out and shown and sort of committed to the fact that he is a Libertarian in terms of his political beliefs. And because of that, he thinks Bitcoin, as an example, is very undervalued. So, I've been over the last week or so, doing a ton more research on his beliefs about Bitcoin and crypto. And there's a surprising amount of info out there where he's already clearly in Bitcoin. He's already saying, "Most of these other tokens other than Bitcoin are going to be worthless, however, with a few exceptions." You know, he says at these interviews. But, there was a really interesting interview that I found. The first-
Zack: You forgot one big thing. He led the investment round a few months ago.
Rob: That's right.
Zack: That's a huge piece.
Rob: So, in addition to investing in Facebook, and PayPal, and all these things, he now is the most recent investor in Block.One. So, Block.One the company-
Zack: He led a strategic investment round for an undisclosed amount.
Rob: Who knows how much money, but really it's not about the money since they have four billion dollars. It's more about getting Peter Thiel in there, who's gone through so many challenges, particularly a mass adoption challenge that they had with PayPal. How do we get people to use this digital money for the first time when they really don't have any incentive to do so? How do you make that incentive? How do you make it accessible? And they solved a lot of these problems. So-
Zack: Why don't ... you just introduced it. Let's roll the clip.
Rob: Yeah, let's roll the clip.
“Where did the idea of PayPal first come from?”
Well, you know, it's ... When you start one of these companies it's typically not the case that you get the whole idea fully formed instantaneously. We certainly ... there was this incredible internet boom going on in Silicon Valley in the late 90s. It felt that there was sort of this open frontier, open Gold Rush. One of the natural things to look at was finance. I was sort of very interested in the cryptocurrency. Could there be new forms of money? There's always something super mysterious, powerful, important about money. What is a way that this was going to change? I think we had this general idea to do something with security, with money, with payments from very early on of the founding of the company and then you iterate a lot on how to get the idea out and the critical question for any consumer internet product is always not what the idea is, but how do you get it out? How do you get the distribution out?
We spent ... there've been a lot of payments companies, in and out payments companies that already started and failed by 1998. There's sort of a variety of these different ones that try to create these comprehensive currency schemes and they would work if everybody would use them, but you could never get even the first person to start.
The challenge was how to make it viral. How do you get something to work where it's good for the first person, for the tenth person, for the hundredth person ... once we have millions of people, you have a network, you have network effects and that was sort of the chicken and egg problem.
“Yeah, how did you guys overcome that hurdle?”
We eventually stumbled on this idea of linking money with email because there were already 300 million people in '99 that had email accounts and so if you could send money to an email address. I send it to your email and then you get an email saying you've received cash and then you'd obviously click on the links and do the work necessary to get the money out.
You didn't need both counterparts to a transaction to be part of the PayPal network; only the sender could be part of it and then the recipient would sign up as they took the money out.
Zack: That was interesting how he kind of had this problem where you have the chicken and the egg problem to reach mass adoption. What else did he talk about in this video and how does the book tie in?
Rob: Yeah, it's the first 8-10 minutes of the video where he talks about ... at PayPal, their goal was ... their ultimate, sort of all encompassing goal was to create a quote “digital currency to replace the U.S. dollar. That was their goal.
Zack: Sounds similar to Bitcoin especially, but what every crypto is trying to do.
Zack: ... [crosstalk 00:38:04] is trying to do.
Rob: That was really one of their goals there was to create this payment network that of course was not peer to peer, but maybe eventually would be. Especially reading Peter Thiel's recent book, "Zero to One," you can see me holding up here, I highly recommend this because throughout the entire book, his philosophy on why he invests in certain companies and taking something from zero to one, meaning making an entirely new category where blog chain is perfectly suited for that and sort of suited to create this new version of the internet, so to speak, he talks about how they did it with PayPal, what he looks for to invest in other companies and it really makes sense after reading this book and now seeing interviews like this, why Peter Thiel made that investment in Block.One because he sees them as creating this entirely new category as being the winner in this blog chain space, and I think it's pretty interesting.
If you have, I think it took me two to three hours to read this, it's not a very long book. Go out, get "Zero to One" on Amazon, you can get it on Kindle, on your phone. I highly recommend it. It's a really great read.
Zack: I played that first clip on purpose because I wanted to follow it up with a clip ... this is probably the fourth or fifth time I've played this on the show, but another clip about ... the first clip was about how Peter Thiel approached reaching that mass network adoption to get PayPal used by the masses.
Now, I'm going to play a clip by Dan Larimer from his seminar at Virginia Tech six months ago about his idea of how EOS is going to reach mass network adoption.
“What do you see ... how do we get to mass adoption? What are the obstacles?”
You have to create a system that's so viral in its own right that people will adopt it without being forced to adopt it. You create a new system and you move to the new system. You create a social media platform that everyone wants to be a part of and it can govern itself so well that people want to use the social media governance for more things. It just creeps into use naturally versus saying, "Hey, let's tear down the old and replace it with the new."
You have to organically create something that can live within the current environment and make the older techniques redundant and eventually unnecessary.
Rob: I think looking at both of these, you can see ... we have a challenge in the blog chain space and with EOS in particular. How do you get people to use it?
We have this technology. It's clearly superior to other technologies like centralized databases and even some other cryptocurrencies and that's all well and fine, but how do you get people to actually use it?
With that Peter Thiel clip about him talking about linking money to email and ...
Zack: At that time, there was not even a lot of E-commerce stores that accepted money.
Rob: Oh yeah.
Zack: If you wanted to do a peer to peer ... Ebay, I believe, was one of the first sites to use PayPal as a transaction.
Rob: Yeah, that's how they got so much traction. He talks about that a lot in this book. Ebay, you were mailing a check to somebody across the country waiting five to seven days for it to clear, but with PayPal all of a sudden they sort of infiltrated the space and you could send it instantly.
Zack: They ran into a lot of regulation issues. He said that the reason they were able to get past them was because ... he said it wouldn't have been possible three years later because of September 11th, which I thought was interesting. He basically ... let me just play another clip of what he said about how they beat regulation.
“Was there any bizarre pushback from banks or anyone that was doing financial transactions traditionally?”
There were certainly more than our share of challenges. You had an enormous problem with fraud where people just figured out ways to hack the system and steal money. You can't simply get rid of fraud because ... you can always get rid of fraud and make it cumbersome. If it's easy, then it's also easy to defraud.
The challenge was how do you get it to be easy to use, but hard to defraud? That took some time.
Certainly, banks didn't like it. The role of the incumbent players that didn't like something new, and then of course it was sort of in this strange regulatory zone where it was a new form of payments, a new form of moving money and the way I often thought of it at the time was that we were in a race between technology and politics.
The politicians didn't like us but if we got the system, the PayPal network to be big enough, it would sort of overwhelm the regulators and they'd have to accept it as a [crosstalk 00:42:22].
Zack: You could see the similarities here ...
Zack: ... with regulation and technology outpacing the regulators because the world regulators in particular, they need educated on this.
Zack: They don't understand it. Everyone's afraid of what they don't understand.
Rob: Absolutely, and to his point, PayPal at that time was a totally new way to transmit, to store to receive any kind of money and now we're seeing the same thing with crypto. You can send not just money but all types of value.
Rob: I could send a token that's the deed to my house or I could have a token that gives me ownership over the profits that a game gives back to me. There's so many different ways of transmitting value. It'll be interesting to see what Peter Thiel does at Block.One to sort of help jumpstart mainstream adoption before the regulators can come in and sort of put their boot on it and put out the fire.
Zack: Hell, let's play one more video clip. YouTube's going to take this video ... stealing of content.
Rob: Let's do it.
Zack: Let's play the Brendan Blumer from ... what was it on, Bloomberg?
Zack: We'll play that clip for you here where he says it's going to start making sense soon.
“Yeah, and in terms of investors ... I mean Bloomberg has reported that your winning funding from Peter Thiel, Jihon Wu, can you confirm that?”
Yes we can confirm that. We did a strategic round a little bit a couple of months ago. This technology is really a platform that allows us to start disrupt some of the large, centralized technology platforms today and these are leaders in that space. Our next plans will make ... in terms of what we build on the application ourself, it'll become a little more apparent why we chose the investors that we have.
Zack: Alright, that's the last clip I'm going to play today. You could see how this all ties together with the strategic partnership with Peter Thiel. Peter Thiel talking about the issues he faced with regulation and mainstream adoption with peer to peer payments over the internet. Now we're trying to build the next generation of the internet
Peter Thiel is hand-in-hand to help Block.One do this and Brendan says, "This is all going to make sense soon."
Zack: Sit back and wait. That's what I'm doing. I'm just enjoying it. I've got my popcorn out. I'm watching this whole story and narrative play out.
Zack: It's game-changing. The fact that we know we're in this time period of revolution. You can see it, you could taste it, you could feel it.
Rob: That's so exciting.
Zack: It's just exciting times.
Rob: Absolutely. I think it's going to be cool a year from now, two years from now, three years from now to look back on some of these podcasts that we're recording and go, "Oh my God, that's when Peter [crosstalk 00:44:53] ...
Zack: Called it.
Rob: ... and we didn't even realize he was doing this. Oh wow, that was before EOS hit 10 million users ... it's going to be do fun to be able to look back on all this and really see. Like you're saying the future being built right in front of our eyes.
Rob: It's so crazy.
Zack: We went a little long today Rob, I think we've got to kind of run through the last couple of topics here.
Rob: Yeah, let's do it.
Zack: There is a project called PARSL. They're going to be doing their airdrop; it's actually a reward drop. I'll share the link in the descriptions so you can get some more information about it. The gist is October 24th they're taking their snapshot. You'll need to have a minimum of 100 EOS tokens in your wallet to receive the airdrop and everyone's getting an equal distribution of 1000 PARSL tokens.
Zack: PARSL ... you want to explain what it is a little bit? I'm not 100% familiar. I know it's a supply chain.
Rob: Yeah. I'm not 100% sure either. The guys just reach out to me for the podcast and said, "Hey, do you mind talking about this on your podcast?"
It has something to do with supply chain and has what they call a dual token economy. One's a stable [inaudible 00:45:54] for transactions and the other is the C-token used to sort of get access to the platform.
I thought it was interesting and worth bringing up because of their airdrop model. It's not my favorite airdrop model, but I do think it's interesting and could result in other ones in the future where they're doing multiple rounds of an airdrop.
Zack: Yeah, that first ... I read about it right before we started recording, but they're doing the initial airdrop with an equal distribution. Everyone gets 1000 to start off.
Zack: Then over the next 11 months if you still hold those original airdrop tokens, I think they're distributing based on how many you still have.
Rob: Yeah, if you have 1000 seed in your account, you then get, I think, another 1000 in the next month. Then you'll get 2000 and 3000. I think it's sort of to encourage you to go out and buy more on exchanges because then they'll match those.
Rob: It's an interesting model that's sort of similar to the EOSIO that happens, sort of not, but it'll be interesting to see what happens to their token over that course of the 12 months and see how that aspect of their token economics affects their amount of users, the token price, so many different things.
I think it's a cool experiment and something to definitely keep an eye out for. I'll probably be holding my seed throughout the 12 months just to see what happens. I think it's interesting, but something to keep in mind.
Zack: That's PARSL. I'll put the link in the description below. It's an interesting project with supply chain and I think the cannabis industry. I mostly was interested in their airdrop model like we were just talking about. The project seems interesting too. You can go read more about that.
Another thing I wanted to bring up was, we talked about all these contests last week ...
Rob: So many.
Zack: ... and this week. There's the pumpkin contest. EOS Blocksmith is doing a weekly meme contest.
Zack: I participated in that one last week. There's another big contest they emailed me and asked to mention it. EOSIS. They're doing a dApp contest and they're judging these dApps that are submitted and the contest runs until November 30th. The link will be down in the description because the link will describe it much better than I can, but the decisions on the dApp contest winners is; convenience and accessibility, practicality, content and creativity. The top prize is going to be for 2000 EOS.
Zack: Second prize 1500 EOS and third prize is for 1000 EOS. If you're already developing a dApp or you're thinking about developing a dApp, make sure you check out this contest because there might be an opportunity to get some seed capital by winning the contest.
Rob: Absolutely. Two thousand EOS is no joke. That's what, $10,000.00, $11,000.00, $12,000.00?
Zack: Ten thousand dollars at least, yeah.
Rob: If you're building a simple dApp just to enter in this contest, that's pretty cool.
Zack: Let's wrap up, let's remind everyone ... you want to talk about the pumpkins one last time?
Rob: Yeah, one last time. If you're out there ...
Zack: We need more pumpkins.
Rob: If you're carving pumpkins for Halloween, we have a few cool entries right now who are, if nobody else enters, going to win that spot. First place 200 EOS, almost $1000.00 for carving an EOS themed pumpkin. I did one that's just the EOS logo. We've had people do these crazy decentralized everything ones, some cool carving instead of actually cutting all the way through.
Get out there, get creative, take Dan's face. Take Dan [inaudible 00:48:47], Dan's cat, whatever you can come up with. Get in the EOS themed pumpkin carving contest out there. tweet it to[@cipherglassbp 00:48:53] with the hashtag #halloweos and you could win up to 200 EOS as a first place prize.
Zack: I'll make one last reminder, next month is the San Francisco hackathon. If you've any interest at all in developing on EOS, even if you haven't done it before, that's what all the mentors are for. There's going to be technology mentors. There's going to be entrepreneurial mentors like Rob and SVK crypto.
If you're interested at all in entering this space, this is the place to go. This is where all the ideas are born. The top prize there is pretty significant also.
Zack: What's that $100,000.00?
Rob: I think it's $100,000.00 and then if you win one of the top three prizes, [125 00:49:29] and then I think $12,500.00, you also get entered in the grand finale where you can win a million dollar top prize. That's pretty crazy.
Zack: For everyone who's already in San Francisco, whether you live there or you're there for the hackathon, please come to the [scaling 00:49:42] Blockchain conference the following day.
Zack: There's going to be lots of blog producers there, a lot of other notable authors, YouTube people and fun managers.
Zack: Who all is going to be there? Multicoin?
Rob: Multicoin's going to be there.
Zack: Aurora. You're representing Cypherglass.
Rob: I'll be there doing an interesting ...
Zack: Happy Money Man, investing with a difference.
Rob: Yeah, a lot of people. It's really, I think, the community conference for EOS. It seems like so many people who are community-driven whether it's Miles Snyder or even EOS Africa who's out there building this community of Africa; all these people are all about the EOS community. I think it's going to be great to not only talk to the EOS community there, but of course meet all of you in person.
Zack: I think it's cool, this is ... I'm not sure about the first hackathon, that was in Hong Kong?
Rob: Hong Kong.
Zack: Yeah, I don't know ... did they do an ... they keep calling this the, "Unconference." It seems like every hackathon ...
Rob: I think they might have.
Zack: ... whether it's a conference or an 'unconference', or just a gathering of community members, it seems like before or after every single hackathon, someone takes the ball and Ramon from Investing with a Difference took the ball on this one and Happy Money Man; they're kind of organizing this and it's a great thing for the community because everyone is already in the same city at the same time.
Zack: Why not stay one extra day and come together when you're not busy hacking and trying to get something out.
Rob: I think it's awesome. Adrianna, our community manager was at the one in London and she said people are really talking about crucial issues. People were talking about future CPU issues, the ram issues that we were having at the time that have since been fixed.
Rob: It's a place for not only people to meet each other and sort of talk about EOS, but also to solve real problems and create real dApps and real solutions. It'll be cool to see what comes out of the is next hackathon and beyond.
Zack: All right. That pretty much wraps us up for today. Anything else you want to add?
Rob: I think that's it.
Zack: All right. I'm Zack Gall.
Rob: I'm Rob Finch.
Zack: This is Everything EOS.