Written by Evan Schindler

From Pittsburgh with a background in payments, mobile applications and marketing technology. My future is in blockchain.
November 7 2018

Roundtable #22: Basic Attention Token (BAT), Good Tron Bad Tron (TRX), Fake Elon Musk Promoted Tweet

Zach is back from Malta and Ryan joins us to talk everything crypto.

ICO Alert disclaimer




Don't miss this week's episode of The Roundtable with co-hosts Zach Quezada and Evan Schindler holding casual crypto conversations on the latest news and the hottest topics. 

  • As usual, The Roundtable goes over YouTube comments from Last Week. 

  • Q "sings" Loch Lomond to the best of his ability.

  • Ryan exclaims his problem with Facial Recognition tech being used by the government.

  • Was Evan exit scammed by a traditional business? 

  • What is up with Twitter promoting a fake Elon Musk tweet?


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This was a very protocol heavy episode. We asked, has anyone else checked out Basic Attention Token (BAT) before the big news this week? We went over their amazing Brave browser and looked into their recent integration with Coinbase PRO. Check out Good TRON Bad TRON where we go over the blockchain company's recent moves.

Also, there was a nice thought to chew around your brain for a few days at the end, as we debate decentralization versus censorship. 



Recording: The ICO Alert Round Table Podcast is a casual discussion between members of the ICO Alert Team. At no point is anything said in this podcast to be construed as legal, tax, financial or investment advice.

Recording: For sake of transparency, members of this week's podcast own the following [inaudible 00:00:17]; Bitcoin, [ Ethereum 00:00:19], Stellar, Tron, XRP, EOS, DAT and [Steen 00:00:25].

Ev: All right folks. Here we are. We're back at the Roundtable, version number 22.

Zach: Let's go.

Ev: We've got a guy who used to be on all the time, but now he's like a stranger to us.

Ryan: Ah yes, that is me.

Zach: Who is this guy?

Ev: Hey, welcome to ICO Alert Ryan.

Zach: Zach, nice to meet you.

Ryan: Pleasure.

Zach: I'm not sure if I'm quite ready to shake your hand or welcome you yet.

Ev: Oh wow, okay. Anyway, Ryan Dennis here. How's it going Ryan?

Ryan: It's going so good. This is my favorite show of today as I usually say, you know.

Ev: Life's good. How could you complain?

Ryan: Actually, I think I'm the luckiest guy in the world to be quite frank.

Ev: Wow.

Ryan: That's how I felt this morning.

Ev: That makes me feel good.

Ryan: That's good. I like that.

Ev: [crosstalk 00:01:08]. It's affecting the markets [crosstalk 00:01:10].

Ryan: I know. They actually call me Moon Man.

Ev: Moon Man? I like that.

Ryan: Yeah.

Zach: Wow.

Ryan: I've been there already with my bags, but I sold them one at the top.

Ev: You sold them at the moon?

Zach: On the moon?

Ev: [crosstalk 00:01:22].

Ryan: Moon Man.

Ev: You getting ready to make another run toward the moon.

Ryan: No, I'll let you know when I've refueled.

Ev: All the right, the fans out there will definitely keep tabs on Ryan and his movement. To my left, Zachy-Q back in action.

Zach: What's up fellas? What's going on?

Ev: What's going on buddy?

Zach: Just hanging out with you guys.

Ev: How's it going?

Zach: This is also my favorite show, actually of all time though. Not just of today. I just love hanging out with you guys.

Ryan: Okay, I like that.

Zach: Thanks for the invite. You're welcome.

Ev: Let's get the show started here. Ladies and gentleman, as always we appreciate any likes, comments, smash the bell, roll the blunt, do whatever you've got to do to get things going for this show.

Ryan: Boom-boom.

Ev: I'm gonna start off with a little bit of comments from last week. One of our favorite guests who's always commenting, always interacting with us, that is Mr. Foggy Frogger.

Ryan: Foggay!!

Ev: Foggay. Now, Foggy actually lives in ... I want to say ... he lives in Canada. I can't remember exactly what Province, sorry to all my Canadian leafs out there. There is ... I sent him a package.

Ev: We sent you a swag bag Foggy Frogger. For anyone out there who's liking, subscribing, commenting, we are likely to send out care packages every once in a while. Foggy, if you got that care package let us know in the comments below. The question that he asked us, this was actually a couple weeks back. He said, "Is there a round table telegram group? Also, thanks again for the swag, you guys are awesome." Maybe he did get the Swag. Do we have a telegram group?

Zach: We do now.

Ev: Really?

Zach: Yeah, just made it right now.

Ev: How many people are in it, two?

Zach: I believe ... yeah, just us.

Ryan: I'm not in the telegram group. I wouldn't be caught dead ...

Ev: Ryan's not even in the telegram group.

Zach: Wow.

Ev: That's how exclusive it is.

Zach: I'm inviting you right now.

Ev: If you guys go out there and get yourselves in that telegram group, you'll be able to interact with us. It's so exclusive, Ryan's not even in it yet.

Ryan: Yeah.

Ev: That's pretty amazing.

Zach: That is how you know.

Ev: Moving right along here to last week's episode. We had Leonard Ben. He said, "I keep an eye on you guys from Ireland." We just wanted to give him a shout out. We haven't had any fans yet from Ireland. Q, you were across the pond kind of near him, not quite in Ireland.

Zach: Yeah, I was in London first. I was at the Malta-Blockchain Summit. That's why I wasn't here, for those of you that didn't know. Although, you made it very apparent when I listened to the last episode, great job.

Zach: I went to London. Did a little bit of a tour of Scotland and then went to Malta. That was my trip. It was about a week and a half. I really enjoyed my time in every country. I was in Scotland. I did have probably the best time there.

Ev: In Scotland?

Zach: Yeah, it was probably because I didn't have much to do. I was able to take in the country as opposed to Malta-[Ware 00:03:59]; it's just like bang-bang-bang-bang. Gotta do the conference, gotta do going out with the crew.

Ev: Get f'd up with crew?

Zach: Yep, just a little bit. I met up with the guys from ROQ Media; R-O-Q Media. We had a good time.

Ryan: I bet you loved that.

Zach: They're Londoners. There's also ... God I forgot the guys name, but he's a Chelsea fan. He's an old school Chelsea fan. As a Chelsea fan myself, it's nice to talk to the guys from back in the day. If you don't know any history about Chelsea, it was a very small club.

Ev: What's Chelsea? Is that like a pop singer?

Zach: It's a club in West London.

Ev: Like Brittany?

Zach: Yes, you got it. Perfect. You're going to totally ruin that bit, but that's fine.

Ev: Okay.

Zach: I was in Scotland. I wanted to show you guys, I think we're going to play it really quick, but ...

Ev: You do have ... you've had this tune stuck in my head all day.

Zach: Yeah, I really got it.

Ev: How's it go?

Zach: I guess obviously there's a little bit of tension between the Scots and the English obviously over the past thousand ...

Ev: FREEDOM!!!!!

Zach: Last thousand ... did you get that out? One more time.

Ev: No.

Zach: Okay. Apparently every Scottish citizen knows Loch Lomond or Loch Lomon ... I think I said that right. I probably butchered it. Every Scottish knows this song. It was sung by ... I guess when the English would capture two brothers from a town, they would kill one and let the other go back to Scotland. The song actually is sung from the perspective of the brother that's not being able to go home, that's being executed.

Zach: Every Scottish citizen knows it. We're going to play it right now, but it goes a little something like ...

Zach: "You'll take the high road and I'll take the low road. I'll be in Scotland before you. And me and my lover, yeah we'll never meet again on the bonnie, bonnie banks of Loch Lomond."

Ev: Wow.

Ryan: Wow, that's really nice. That's really nice.

Zach: Please play audio over what I just sang. That was fucking terrible.

Ryan: No, that's gotta go in there.

Ev: We might just play that on repeat for the entire episode when this comes out.

Zach: Okay, perfect. Anyway ...

Ryan: Your falsetto's on point.

Zach: Yeah, to our Scottish viewers, loved your country. That was a great experience.

Ev: And our Irish viewers as well.

Zach: Yeah, obviously the Irish viewers. Can't forget about them.

Ev: You were in Malta however, now it seems like you came back with a ton of culture from your Euro trip, what about Malta specifically? It was a huge conference. I heard it broke records, like 8500 people were there or something crazy?

Zach: Yeah, it felt like a lot of people. I don't know if it was as big as consensus was. It felt like a lot of people. I would say, conservatively, I would say 6000 to 7000 people.

Ev: Wow.

Zach: If they said 8500, then 8500 sounds about right.

Ev: Who were the big time sponsors? Who was really going all out to promote their brand over there?

Zach: It was more about Malta kind of promoting its brand. They had a lot of Malta launcher, ICO in Malta. They had a lot of speakers from Malta talking about the Prime Minister. I guess they made Sophie the AI BOT.

Ev: Did you get to see her speak?

Zach: I got to see her speak. She is the first AI citizen. She is literally a citizen of Malta now.

Ev: She's a citizen of Malta? AI Robot. Oh God, that's weird.

Zach: Yeah, it is weird. I think McAfee was there.

Ev: I did see McAfee take a picture with the [Winklevoss 00:07:26] twins. They were there as well.

Zach: Yeah. I never saw the [Winklevoss 00:07:30] twins there.

Ev: Did you see McAfee speak?

Zach: I didn't but from the winds, from the grapevine I heard that he was speaking and he was a little bit toasted while he was speaking.

Ev: He is never not toasted.

Zach: That's probably true. Yeah, I had a great time. A lot of ICO advisory services out there right now. There's more services for ICOs than there is ICOs happening right now.

Ev: That's definitely been a trend that I've notice and Ryan, maybe you've noticed the same thing too. Since the beginning of the year it's like there were all these ICOs out there and now the market has kind of corrected itself for bad projects. Everybody's still trying to provide services for them. I'm not sure if that's ... I don't know, have you noticed that at any of the conferences you've been to?

Ryan: Based on what Keith said about the multi-conference, there's a lot of services firms. I guess when you see all these ICO services firms doing well a year ago ... everybody feels like they should have started ICO alert. They should have started right before the boom.

Ev: Right.

Ryan: Be ahead of the next bull market. You're too late already. Now there's so many ICO services firms. Not enough ICOs that are willing to pay the dollar unless you've got a real brand, a real process, a real customer service oriented team.

Zach: A real podcast network.

Ryan: A real podcast.

Zach: Empire, per se.

Ryan: Absolutely. Back to your comments about McAfee man, I heard that he was talking about facial recognition in Malta at his speech. I'm sorry you missed it, but him being there's a big deal.

Ryan: I know people like to play fun and make fun of him, but he is one of the biggest influences in crypto for a reason. He actually has built software that nobody in crypto's built actually; the standard for cyber security. He was talking about how facial recognition is going to be a serious issue because Malta is going to kind of ... they kind of announced they're going to have some new legislation to make it more of an electronically based nation state. Facial recognition to identify citizen kind of pissed off John McAfee.

Ev: Really? Was he openly talking against the Maltese initiative to move toward that?

Ryan: Yeah, he said basically if facial recognition becomes something regular for policing how we're recognizing where people are or aren't, then he's not cool with it.

Ev: Yeah.

Ryan: I kind of vibe with it.

Ev: Yeah.

Ryan: I'll be honest with you, facial recog ...

Ev: You kind of like facial recognition, or you dislike it?

Ryan: I dislike it on certain ... for a Government to use facial recognition is scary.

Zach: I can imagine they probably already are.

Ryan: Yeah. Listen, I'm comfortable that iPhone and Apple tracks my face. They know where I'm at. They know when I took cookies out of the convenience store or what I'm doing when I'm alone with my family. I'm okay with Apple knowing that and maybe selling that to the Government or the CIA, that's fine.

Ev: As long as Apple's getting a cut of that process?

Ryan: As long as Apple's getting a cut.

Ev: As long as that middle man's still [crosstalk 00:10:24].

Ryan: They know I'm going to buy a new phone. They know I'm going to get the latest. They've got my back a little bit.

Ryan: When you are just ... imagine that the US Government was like, "Okay, facial recognition for all traffic lights, all elevators, all ..." It's a lot man.

Ev: Imagine how often our faces are on camera.

Ryan: Yeah, black mirror stuff.

Ev: You know, in China they actually do have facial recognition software being used for ... it's like a citizen credit score.

Zach: Yep.

Ev: You kind of see stories all over, but that's real. I saw a video of someone who was on a train and they talked about, blatantly in public, in open, in English. It said, "If you're smoking in areas you're not supposed to be smoking in. If you're acting disorderly, they'll actually deduct points from your social credit score." If you have a low enough credit score, then you actually won't be able to buy a train ticket because you're a burden to society. The Chinese Government thinks you don't belong on trains anymore.

Ev: Pretty crazy stuff. The Malta Blockchain Summit seemed like a really cool experience though.

Zach: Yeah absolutely. I got there Wednesday. I left Friday night so I wasn't able to stay for Friday night, but as far as just the experience of being in Malta, actually when you first asked me what Malta was like I said it was a little bit of a middle-Eastern Mediterranean Vegas. It's more like New Orleans. Again, I think you told me you hadn't been to New Orleans.

Ev: I haven't been to New Orleans, no.

Zach: It's more like New Orleans. It's got a really cool vibe. Really nice people. Yeah, I really enjoyed my time. Again, met a lot of great people. I think Justin Woo, gotta give him a shout out. We were able to talk for a little while. He's all over the country man. He's hosting different events, going to different events. Really, really admire the guy for hustling like he does.

Zach: Yeah, I had a great time. No complaints. Saw Carla.

Ev: Carla Marie? She's been on the program before.

Zach: Yes she has and she did great promoting the event.

Ev: Yeah.

Zach: Hopefully we see her again soon. As far as the conference goes, yeah a 10 out of 10 from them.

Ev: I guess I'll have to wait until next year to see the country of Malta. I was supposed to be in Europe with Q, but Q did the smart thing and bought on ... what'd you fly over there? British Airways?

Zach: British Air.

Ev: I thought I was going to be slick and bought an airline ticket called, 'Prime Air Air'. It wasn't until I'd already flown from Pittsburgh to DC for a connecting flight when I tried to sign in and the woman told me that Prime Air Air doesn't exist anymore and that they had gone bankrupt. I found out I got basically exit scammed by an airline.

Ev: This airline, Prime Air Air, if you're out there listening, thanks a lot. They knew that they were going to go out of business. Between the time I bought my ticket and the time that my flight was, they went bankrupt. They didn't send me any notifications. They probably sent me three emails; one was, "Make sure you fill out your passport information." Two was, "Do you want to buy extra luggage?" Three was ... they were actually still trying to sell me shit.

Zach: Up-sale you?

Ev: Up-sell me shit on an airline that went out of business. Then they didn't even have the wherewithal to send me a notice, "Hey, we went out of business. Don't fly to a different city to connect."

Zach: How did that conversation go? That had to be a conversation that rarely ever happens with anyone working as airport staff.

Ev: I was trying to go to the lounge in DC. I had a really long layover.

Zach: Yeah, yeah.

Ev: You know you've got to take advantage of the lunge. I go in and I told the woman, "Hey, here's my pass to the lounge", but you have to show that you're actually flying out of the airport that day. I was like, "I haven't signed in to my next flight. Do you think I can use a computer here or something to print out the ticket?"

Ryan: Right.

Ev: She's like, "Yeah, I can print it out for you. What's the airline?" I said, "Prime Air Air." She was like, "Uh, let me look that up." Then she looked it up and she was like, "Yeah, that airline doesn't exist."

Ev: I'm thinking, wait a minute, am I in the wrong airport? Are there two airports in DC? There is one in Maryland.

Ryan: Yeah.

Ev: I'm thinking maybe I'm in the wrong airport. I go over the computer. I try to get on Prime Air Air's website and it doesn't load. It just doesn't ... I'm like what the hell is this?

Zach: Wow.

Ev: Then I Google Prime Air Air to see if I can get there from the Google search results. The first article that comes up is like, "Prime Air Air goes out of business. Passengers stranded in airports everywhere." I'm like, "I'm one of those."

Zach: What the hell?

Ryan: You know it sounds like you actually ... people would accuse this of ICOs right.

Ev: This was ... I got exit scammed by an airline.

Ryan: Traditional companies, they can have shady business practices as well. Not just crypto.

Ev: Exactly. That's my little fun Europe story, still haven't had a chance to make it across the pond there.

Ev: Anyway, we're obviously a couple of minutes into the show here without diving into any topics. We do want to talk about some of the latest news and stuff going on in crypto. Of course, we've got everyone's new favorite segment, Good Tron, Bad Tron coming up. Then we've got some Twitter scandals going on that we definitely want to cover.

Ev: First things first, Basic Attention Token. Batter-batter up. Popping off. It's actually been going up steadily for a while.

Zach: Coinbase Pro added to that. Getting listed there, that's a ... honestly, when we kind of first found out about it, probably a week ago, we probably should have had eyes on it previous to that obviously.

Ev: Yeah.

Zach: Any good person in crypto, I heard about Basic Attention Token, went to go look it up to try to see what holes I could punch into it and honestly, we did it today, looked at the interface with the brave browser and it's seamless, seamless. As far as ... were you guys expecting the listing of that token?

Ryan: I was expecting it because I'm a nerd on Coinbase. I think that Coinbase eventually will combine with Facebook and become one of the most important companies in crypto or the financial technology world. That's my conspiracy theory.

Ryan: I think that Coinbase, they said in July they were looking into a list of new pairings and BAT was one of them. It's one of those updates, "Coinbase is just fronting; they're not going to list all of these tokens."

Zach: Right, when they say they're looking into it, you don't know when is that ever going to come to fruition?

Ryan: Right. I think what I'm happy about is that I don't live in New York. If you guys know any New Yorkers that are in crypto, that's one of the number one markets here in the US. You can go to a crypto conference every single day in New York and never miss anything.

Ryan: These regulations are so heavy in New York State my man, that's my hometown, you can't use Coinbase Pro to buy any of these coins in New York.

Ev: Can't even get on Coinbase Pro?

Ryan: No.

Ev: Wow.

Ryan: I think it's hilarious because there's all these new listings, but all the New York Blockchain people can't legally ...

Ev: They're left out.

Ryan: Yeah, use it. I was expecting BAT. It's an interesting project and you guys were checking out Brave earlier, it's sick.

Ev: Yeah. I like Brave a lot. Just a few things I guess about Basic Attention Token; we had mentioned a couple episodes ago that there was a list of a few different tokens that they were looking at listing. One was Basic Attention Token. One was Stellar. I think one was Z-Cash or something? Then another, you had mentioned it earlier. I can't remember. We'll look them up. I'll put them on the screen for you guys.

Zach: Yeah.

Ev: I really like the Brave browser and I like that you can ... Pete had actually brought this up earlier. You can actually go on people's YouTube channels and support their YouTube channel even if they've been demonetized through the Brave browser. You can send them Basic Attention Token.

Ev: What I like about that is that right now YouTube and these big platforms, obviously you've got YouTube, Twitter, Facebook; these guys are still dominating all of social media. People are trying to compete with them. With Basic Attention Token and with Brave Browser, instead of trying to build an entire competitor and build a community from nothing to try to compete with YouTube because you've got some users who are upset that they've been demonetized, now through Brave browser, you can still use the YouTube platform, but you can actually support people whose content you like by sending them the basic attention token stuff.

Ev: I'm not sure exactly how it works with users on the YouTube platform. Maybe if you are a YouTube person ... maybe we should look into it and how to actually accept Basic Attention Tokens through our YouTube channel.

Ryan: They're developing it. There's a lot of people who are trying to add dual incentivization to YouTube or video players of the sort. I've worked with a few of them and it's difficult to do, but the real thing that's going to benefit users if Basic Attention Token is successful is that content publishers and digital advertisers will be able to work on the platform and basically they'll have incentives to exchange money continuously without their being a third party or that flawed system of YouTube or Google telling you what Google wants, what YouTube wants, or you're allowed to do before you have permission to monetize.

Ryan: If you have a great product or a great project or a great company and YouTube says, "No," then no.

Ev: We can't monetize ICO alert.

Ryan: Yeah, if you can't monetize your YouTube ... a lot of crypto companies, shout out to all the crypto ICO services, blockchain companies out there that can't advertise on Twitter, Facebook like us because we use the word, 'crypto'. We use the word, 'blockchain' and we're being oppressed to be honest with you. Kind of in the same way Alex Jones is. We're kind of being left out of the system to advertise.

Ev: Did you just compare us to Alex Jones?

Ryan: We're a lot less racist than Alex Jones. I think the difference is only in that it really shines a light on what our industry is doing.

Ev: Yeah.

Ryan: We're trying to deny these things. The other thing about Basic Attention Token, they've been around for a while. A lot of people don't know that out of the top 100 crypto currency tokens out there, listen on CoinMarketCap, only about 30 to 40 have actually MVPs or products. BAT and their browser Brave is one of those 36; that's ... if you're one of those 36 that actually has an MVP, you are a real player.

Ev: Yeah.

Ryan: You're a real player. Like Tron, they're a real player.

Ev: Uh-oh. We're going to dive into ...

Ryan: Player-player you know. Yeah …


Ev: Uh-oh. We're gonna dive into [crosstalk 00:21:01].

Zach: Playa, playa. You know. Yeah. MVPs. BAT shot up to them. Coinbase Pro. They're professional now.

Ev: So, Q. You have basic attention token browser. You have the Brig browser. What was your feelings using it today, or over the past couple of days? What do you like about it? What do you dislike about it?

Zach: Obviously, you get $8.00 worth of basic attention token right when you sign up. You can go to brave.com/download. You can download it for Mac OS. You can download it for Windows. I like that it essentially runs just like Chrome, but it has the features of that additional ad blocking of that additional ... You could look in here at the settings, and there's a lot of different things that it does beyond what a typical ad blocker could do. Because, obviously, that's what it was made for.

Zach: I totally agree with Ryan. This platform is great. I know we've been talking about ÐApps for a while. We've been talking about the mix of even some decentralized apps. They're not decentralized, totally. The real use cases, I think, are gonna be found somewhere in the middle with centralized apps ... or decentralized apps on top of some type of ... I said that backwards. Centralized app built on a decentralized system, if that makes any sense.

Zach: You have to mix the two. We've come to the point where going too far ... there's no ... the usability isn't there. The transaction times aren't there. Just a lot of things that all these protocols are dealing with. Just trying to do the 100% decentralized protocols. This is one of those, right? It's a centralized platform, but it had decentralized aspects.

Zach: I love it, man. It seamlessly transition from Chrome, so I can log in with everything. Didn't have to input my login. Kind of weird. Had to be a little brave, as Ryan talked about it, but. No. It's great, man. I would say, everybody check it out for yourself again. It's brave.com/download. Love it. The only thing that I don't seem to understand is removing the BAT from the wallet. Because they give you obviously that wallet that has the private key.

Ev: I think you have to use ... So, they give you Brave to use, but they want you to use it. There's an expiration date on it, and that's a good incentive for people who are out there trying to earn Brave Tokens, is any new user who signs up gets $7.78 in Brave Tokens, which is a lot.

Zach: Yeah.

Ev: They incentivized them to go out and spend them. Go out and actually give people who are creating content ... Go pay for them, if you enjoy their content.

Ryan: Yeah, this is a really big deal, because if you're familiar with YouTube, and the beauty artists. The make-up artists. Gigantic industry. Way-

Ev: You watch that stuff a lot?

Ryan: Oh, absolutely. It's art. I love art. Shout out to all the artists out there.

Zach: ASMR.

Ryan: Whether it be make-up or ASMR, keep doing your art. It's gigantic. The market for beauty is probably as big as any other industry will be in the next five years. We don't even know. You look at influencers from Kim Kardashian to just random YouTube people who just doing their make-up, becoming megastars and millionaires.

Ryan: Doing their own makeup tutorials, right? Working with sponsorships and monetizing their work. YouTube had a channel for YouTube Beauty, because it was so big, and these people were making money. Guap for actually having really good makeup videos, and showing off these products that they're using. These reviews.

Ryan: YouTube nixed it. They said, "No more of this." Yeah. What's the term? Nerfed? They nerfed the amount of money that you can make.

Zach: [crosstalk 00:24:46] term. I like it.

Ryan: These beauty players are really PO'd, so, if you can use some tokens. I don't care if it's $7.00. Give somebody $7.00. That's huge.

Zach: Ev, I would pay to watch you put on makeup.

Ev: Put on makeup on my own face?

Zach: Yes.

Ev: That would be a disaster.

Zach: Can you do that? On the round table.

Ev: I will whore myself out for BAT token. I'll do anything.

Zach: That is huge. The way that you would do that ... Say, someone is using basic [inaudible 00:25:17] token, using Brave, and wants to tip ICO Alert. Even if we didn't have the Brave browser. Didn't have any BAT. I guess Pete Key, obviously, Bitkinstein-

Ryan: It's Pete Kay.

Zach: Oh. Pete Key. I'm calling him Key, just to piss him off. Pete told us that after a certainly amount of tokens are received by the recipient, they get an email or a notification that says, "Hey, listen. You're getting a bunch of BAT tips. To receive them, sign up to"-

Ryan: Wait, so you mean that a transaction goes through in cryptocurrency, and I get notified?

Zach: Yes.

Ryan: That's never happened before.

Zach: Yeah, it's interesting.

Ryan: Brave has four million monthly users. That's what I read.

Zach: Okay.

Ryan: That's a lot.

Ev: That is a lot.

Ryan: That's a lot of users.

Ev: They have a mobile browser too.

Ryan: They're on mobile.

Ev: I have a buddy ... he knows about crypto. He's a computer programmer, but he's not heavy into crypto. He sent me a screenshot of something he was browsing one day on a mobile device. It was the Brave browser, and I was like, "Holy shit. I didn't know you used that." He was like, "that's the only browser I use on mobile."

Ev: There's people that aren't even necessarily in it for the basic attention tokens, but they enjoy the security and the privacy that comes with the actual browser.

Ryan: What else did this guy make? These other browsers?

Ev: The founder is named, Brendan Eich, who's actually born in Pittsburgh, PA, so he's a [yenser 00:26:48]. But I think he quickly abandoned the city, and he was the co-founder of Mozilla. He worked at Netscape in the early days, then went on to co-found Mozilla. Left Mozilla and started Brave.

Zach: This guy's an OG, then. Wow.

Ev: Yeah, he knows his stuff. He knows how to make browsers.

Ryan: These people who were bitten. Building infrastructures for the beginning of the internet days, or communication systems. When they get into crypto, they make so much noise because we're right at the same point where the internet was when it was starting to develop. The Celsius-

Ev: McAfee is another-

Ryan: Yeah, McAfee is definitely one. The gentleman from Celsius. The CEO of Celsius.

Ev: Yeah, he invented-

Ryan: TCP/IP.

Ev: Wasn't it voice over internet protocol?

Ryan: VOIP. Yeah, excuse me. Shout out to Celsius. Their whole team. Leah Jonas. That's awesome.

Ev: [honel 00:27:37].

Ryan: Yeah, exactly. They made that-

Ev: Celsius probably has the best swag in the game. We always messing with their stuff, and if you haven't read it, it says, "Fiat is for people who don't like beer." I think that's a pretty cool-

Ryan: Straight facts.

Ev: ... little thing to have.

Zach: You know who said the same thing? Gabe Shepherd. Saw him at Malta. [crosstalk 00:27:57]. Same thing. He was around when the internet was just coming around. Late 90s. Things like that.

Ev: And he said this is like the same feeling?

Zach: "This could be bigger," he said.

Ev: Wow.

Ryan: It will be bigger.

Zach: Yeah, I think it will.

Ryan: You look at BAT. If they can make another browser that's better than Chrome. When you have four million people using Brave other than Chrome. Do you think Google likes that? No. That's a real competitor.

Ev: I think there's so many projects out there that are just focused on the token, and they're just focused on how are they gonna make money and raise money. Brave really did a good job of focusing on the product first, and focusing on that privacy.

Ev: They're browser first, and then they're a crypto thing.

Ryan: Oh, yes.

Ev: The basic attention token is a utility within the platform that they built. It's not the opposite where it's like the platform they built might one day come to fruition because they raised money one a token.

Ryan: I love it.

Zach: That's perfect.

Ryan: Shout out to BAT.

Ev: Shout out to BAT. So, congrats on the listing on Coinbase. We'll throw up a quick chart, so you can see the price has been looking pretty good. I think we're gonna take a quick 45 to 50 second break here, and then we'll be right back on the other side with everybody's favorite segment, Good TRON, Bad TRON.

Ev: All right, folks. We are back. I see all the round table. Number 22. Boom. It is time for everybody's favorite segment. What's that segment called?

Zach: Is it Good TRON?

Ryan: Poor TRON?

Ev: Rich TRON, Poor TRON?

Zach: Rich TRON, Poor TRON.

Ev: It is Good TRON, Bad TRON. Bring up that scoreboard.

Ryan: Ding ding ding.

Ev: Boom.

Ryan: Yeah.

Ev: All right, folks. If you haven't been around to see this before, this is a lightning round. We go over three things that TRON has done in the past week. Usually we find these on Justin Sun's Twitter, and we say, "Is it a good TRON move? Is it a bad TRON move?" And we see who's gonna win this week. Is it gonna be the heavenly graces of the good TRON, or is it gonna be the dark, evil underlords of the evil TRON.

Ev: Okay. So, the first thing. This is from earlier this week. This is pretty big news. I have a feeling where you guys are gonna weigh in on this, but I'd love to see you weigh in, regardless.

Ev: TRON has actually surpassed one million transactions daily on the TRON network, and they continue to hit new highs as address growth remains steady. That's from Justin Sun's own personal Twitter, there. What do you guys think? One million daily transactions.

Ryan: Oh, that's nothing. My blockchain runs two billion transactions a day. That's good TRON, man. That's a serious number, man. One million transactions in a day. Think about Visa. They're doing 24,000 a minute, so, TRON is getting up there in terms of-

Ev: Pretty close.

Ryan: I don't think there's a lot of blockchains out there that are as fast. Don't be surprised if a year from now, TRON is running more transactions than anybody else. Right up there with Algorand.

Ev: A little Algorand [crosstalk 00:30:57]. I think this is good TRON as well, so put the points on the scoreboard. I saw someone tweet about it. They said it had more transactions than Bitcoin, Ethereum and Ripple. The top three. Combined. That's on a daily ... It's not like that every day, but to surpass one million daily transactions, that's impressive.

Zach: You had to talk about Ripple.

Ev: I know. Every time, we talk about Ripple.

Zach: Here they come. I can hear them. Do you hear them?

Ev: I hear the Ripple people.

Zach: They're banging on the door.

Ev: The Ripple rompers are coming into the studio.

Zach: The rompers.

Ev: All right. Good TRON up one nothing. Second item of business, and this one is where we get a little bit dicey, folks. We had to do a little bit of investigation here. By investigation, I mean I Googled two things for three seconds. [crosstalk 00:31:42].

Ev: Ashburn, VA. Kind of a strange location. According to Misha Lederman over there on the Twitter box, the TRON node count has surpassed 1000 nodes online.

Ryan: Wow.

Ev: No, that's cool. But then you look at the top three locations among the active TRON nodes. Number one is Ashburn, VA, and it is head and shoulders above the rest. It's three times the second most, which is San Mateo, CA. I thought, "What's going on with Ashburn, VA? What a weird, random place to have all these TRON nodes." Did a little bit of digging. Turns out that's actually a location of the largest Amazon web server. Server farm.

Ev: I know this isn't particularly TRON. This isn't their doing. These are the nodes. These are people on the network. But for that many people to be hosting nodes in the same exact location seems a little bit less decentralized than they're claiming to be on the TRON network. What do you guys think of that?

Zach: I absolutely believe that as well. I don't think they would want that information out there, so we're putting them on the spot here. You know, one thing I didn't see in that top three list is China. I see two American, and one Japan. Chinese have been notorious for, example, the EOS block producers.

Zach: If you look at the top 21, a good hefty chunk of that is in China. As well as bitcoin. You know about Bitcoin. Obviously, this is a bad TRON for me. To see how many nodes are in that area, and how much that takes up of the total percentage. That's a bad TRON.

Ryan: I'm gonna sneak a good TRON in there.

Ev: Uh-oh.

Ryan: Sneaker. It's a sleeper. The reason I say that is because, think about Amazon Web Services. The point of it is so that wherever I am, I can host in another place. I don't have to really be worried about the cloud computing softwares, or server management.

Ryan: For it to be on AWS, that could be 218 different people running a node. You don't know. They could be from all over the world, so I also think that it might ... The reason I'm giving it good TRON is because TRON is really interested in partnering with these larger supply chain companies. Alibaba and Baidu and Amazon, potentially. Maybe they've been hosting a lot of their nodes there.

Ev: I'm surprised they haven't announced that they're partnered with Amazon somehow.

Ryan: Listen, maybe they are. Because if they're that large of a user for Amazon Web Services, guess what? If Justin Sun meets with the head of Amazon. He meets Jeff Bezos, and he says, "Hey, guess what? I've got over a million transactions happening over a day, and 218 of those nodes are in one of your centers." Jeff will like the sound of that.

Ev: Yeah.

Ryan: I think it's actually might a long-term good TRON play.

Ev: That means I get to break a tie here. Which is the first time this has happened on Good TRON, Bad TRON. This is a tough one. First of all, I think that ... I looked into this specific Amazon web server location. Something like 70% of all the world's internet goes through this one spot, so there's not a ton of options out there for people to host web servers, or host transactions in other locations.

Ev: It could just be that this is an instance of bad internet. But at the same time, I think that TRON, eventually their goal should be to decentralize away from this. I can't call it good TRON, even though it's not necessarily TRON's fault. I always wanna make it interesting, and send this to the third round, so I'm gonna say bad TRON.

Zach: Bad TRON.

Ev: All right. Let's move on then. This is the third and final. It's all gonna come down to this. This one's a little bit interesting. This is a little bit of a crossover detail here. Also, just recently announced by Scatter on Twitter. Everything's on the Twitter box today.

Ev: This was on November 3rd. They are now fully supportive of all TRON DAPS with the Scatter. I'm guessing it's both the Chrome plugin and the desktop Scatter. Scatter, known by a lot of the EOS community. Now, people will be able to play a little bit of TRON games with it too.

Ev: Yeah, I'm interested in what TRON DAPS are actually out there. I think EOS has done a good job of promoting the DAPS they have, although most of those are gambling DAPS. Ether obviously has a solid amount of DAPS being built on top of it.

Ev: I don't know any TRON DAPS. Do you know any TRON DAPS?

Ryan: Yeah. Panda Fun, man.

Zach: Panda Fun? Oh that's the one I [crosstalk 00:36:08].

Ev: If you go to TRON network, there's actually a link there. We did actually make a bit of a mistake last week. I was giving credit to a non-TRON affiliated DAP radar type thing, and it was a total trash website, so the whole Panda Fun thing, that was a mishap on my part. Not on TRON's part. If you go-

Zach: That's bad Ev.

Ev: What is this website called, 'cause you linked this directly from TRON, right?

Zach: Yeah, it's daphouse.org. It looks like it's directly affiliated ... And don't quote me. It just has TRON's big logo on the top left.

Ev: This link comes directly from TRON's website.

Zach: Yes.

Ev: It's got the little kid cutty man on the moon looking guy there.

Zach: Yeah, so is daphouse.org, but I got here through TRON's website, and looks like it affiliated with TRON. The top DAPS are always gonna be gambling DAPS right now. As far a probably users. What's the reason for that, other than everyone's love of gambling. What's the reason gambling DAPS, specifically, are popular over others? What do you think, Ry?

Ryan: I think because everybody has a lot of coins that they don't want anything to do with.

Ev: They just wanna gamble 'em away.

Ryan: I was talking to Connor last week about how he used the word masochism. Where you're hurting yourself on purpose. You have all these different bags, and you're holding them, right? For all these coins you didn't really know if they were gonna go anywhere.

Ryan: You still have maybe 5000 of one token left, and it's useless. Absolutely useless in terms of utility, except maybe you can win some more, because if I have 5000 useless tokens, if I gambled them and maybe I end up with 15. Actually, I've got some money now.

Ryan: Maybe have some more power in this server, in this game, or in this whatever utility for the token is. The interest of winning big is inherent in all of us. You saw how crazy everybody was about the lottery that was 1.6 billion dollars.

Ryan: People like free money. People like gambling. Tokens are something that people still don't take seriously, but I'll tell you one thing. I'm being honest here. If you really love EOS. If you really love TRON, and you're gambling these tokens. You don't really love EOS. You don't really love TRON. Because you are wasting away your bags. At the end of the day, if you lose it all, you really don't believe in the project. You just trying to get money out here.

Ryan: If you trying to get money, get the money. But if you care about the project, educate yourself about the project, learn more about it, and find a way that you can get more and use it for its purpose.

Ev: Yeah, I would say part of the reason why these platforms are building these gambling platforms first, is because the core component of a game that is showing that the blockchain can be scalable and be used a lot of times, is a transaction.

Ev: In A normal video game, you're almost never transacting. You're doing mostly walkthrough of the universe, or you're playing a sport game against someone else. Or you're racing. You're not doing transactions. In a gambling game, or in some kind of fantasy sports games, or something like that.

Ev: You're doing a lot of transacting at a quick pace. I think, maybe these games aren't long-term gonna be the biggest thing ever, but they are being used, right now as something that one can be developed very quickly. TRON dice, and EOS bet dice. You literally move a slider and then click a button, and it's not even real dice.

Ev: I think it's two-fold. One, let's use an example of something that's very high-volume transaction to prove that we can do it. And two, obviously you're not gonna have a Skyrim or a World of Warcraft built in the first four months that these blockchains are even around. You wanna see something very simple that can be exemplary.

Ryan: But those games, which are becoming much more popular. Look at the biggest games that are out this year on some major platforms. Like the new Spider-Man game. The new Red Dead Redemption game. A lot of people have played Elder Scrolls, or Fallout, and these massive role-playing games.

Ryan: They're very transactional games. We don't really think about it until somebody put some of these tokens on a blockchain, it's like, "Wow. I can actually get a new shield. And I can actually further myself up into these games." These are a big deal in other countries.

Ryan: If you're in South Korea, for example, eSports is a part of their culture. It's not just something that they do for fun. That's how popular the most popular kid in school is. Because they game better than you.

Ev: Right.

Ryan: From my perspective, I think it's only going to get bigger. That people who have cryptocurrency. They have an appetite for risk. Why else would you put all your money into digital monies that are probably worth nothing?

Ryan: Because you like risky things, and gambling is right in tow with that. But gaming ... When you play these role-playing games ... Chance and betting and gambling within these games is becoming bigger and bigger. As a big gamer, myself, I see it more and more. There's more opportunities for me to was my diamonds, or my rubies in these games.

Ryan: If I could put some money in there, and make it transactional, one of these cryptocurrencies, or one of these protocols is going to land themselves in a cool video game that catches wildfire, and may get more popular than Bitcoin.

Ev: Yeah. It's only a matter of time until we start seeing the Clash of Clans of these ... Bet dice is not the top DAP anymore. It's something like that, or Words With Friends, or something like that. Think about even mobile ... Games on mobile apps, even five years ago, six years ago weren't that ... Maybe a little bit longer than that. Maybe ten years ago. There was Snake on your Nokia, you know?

Zach: The flip phone Snake. Yeah, I remember that.

Ev: For us to think that four months after a main net comes out that we're gonna have these amazing interfaces, and these crazy games. It's not realistic.

Zach: Yeah. We've talked about that. We're in the phase of Pong, essentially. You made a good point. As far-


Zach: We're in the phase of Pong, essentially for, and you made a good point, as far as mobile games go, we're in the Snake version of all of these games. I think let me talk on the first point really quick. I think the reason that you see all these gambling dapps is twofold. Same thing, it's simplicity, but it has to do with the simplicity from the developer's standpoint as well as the gamer's standpoint. More so, I would think from the developer's standpoint. You guys just touched on it, right. Making a massive game, you have to create a full-scale universe almost, whereas developing a gambling dapp is very, although probably a little bit harder than we think, not as hard as creating an entire game.

Zach: There are two cool games that are being built with blockchain in mind. One I met, actually at Malta, knew about it beforehand. It was Decimated. I forgot the actual-

Ev: Oh, I think I've seen that actually.

Zach: They're building a survival game a lot like maybe a PUBG, but I know everyone is trying to build a battle royale, but it's not like that at all. I met the founder, the guy who is developing the game along with the rest of the guys at his studio. Decimated seems like a really cool idea, and the transactions were taking place in the game, at least in that video. They were late 2019, so it'd going to be a while.

Ev: It's going to be a while, yeah.

Zach: Ones that are being developed now, it's going to be a while before those types of games come out.

Ev: Think about how long it takes between Grand Theft Auto III and Grand Theft Auto IV. That was like six years, seven years maybe.

Zach: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Ev: Or even Elder Scrolls. When did Skyrim come out?

Ryan: Yeah, that was a while ago, about 2011.

Ev: And we haven't seen a new one since then.

Ryan: No.

Ev: I mean, we saw Elder Scrolls online, I guess, but I mean, these games take a long time. I think right now, seeing these betting platforms, it gives me a shot of confidence because they look good. They have nice interfaces. They're not the most complicated things ever, but I think they're good. But all right, we got to focus because we're still in good Tron, bad Tron right now.

Zach: Really?

Ev: All right. We're talking about, and I'm getting distracted by people off camera. We're talking about specifically going with the full Tron integration.

Ryan: It's good Tron, man.

Zach: Good Tron.

Ev: Good Tron?

Ryan: It's good Tron. Come on. If Scatter is supporting all Tron dapps, they want people to build on Tron, that's going to be very good for Tron because like you said earlier in the news, they can handle these transactions, and if they handle the transactions, and like we said, if they land on a game like Fort Nite. Like you can actually use Fort Nite, and use your Tron to buy those dances where they appropriate people's cultures, that'd be fantastic, and the mass adoption would happen. It's good Tron. It's not bad. What's bad about it?

Zach: Yeah. I would love for someone to argue that it's bad Tron. I don't see an avenue where it could be confused as bad Tron.

Ev: All right. Well, I can't even say good or bad because they already won. You guys got it, man. Good Tron wins again. Three weeks running for good Tron. I'm going to have to dig up more dirt on these guys.

Ryan: Get dirty.

Zach: Yeah, you need to get a little in the trenches there if-

Ev: Overall, though Tron, I mean, it's looking good. There used to be a doormat for a lot of people, but they're right up there with EOS, in my opinion.

Zach: Wow.

Ev: You don't have issues with ... I'm not saying, listen, a lot of people get in these things where it's like you're one or the other. I love EOS. I love Tron. I think right now, playing Tron Dice, I don't have to deal with CPU issues where I'm renting my CPU off some shady third-party. It's the same thing. We'll see as things progress. Ultimately, like we kind of touched on earlier, these protocols are going to come down to who is building on top of them because the protocol could be better than another or it could be worse than another, but if you have the killer app, if the next Crypto Kitties comes out, and it's 100 times better than Crypto Kitties, and it's on Tron, Tron is going to have a huge boost there just like Ethereum had a huge boost because it was the first one.

Zach: We were talking to a guy, we had an advisory call, and he was asking about how if he builds on top of a certain protocol, how if a year down the road if there's something else that comes out, which inevitably there will be, that's much better, how can you then port to that different protocol, right? Am I going to have to really pick up everything and now start developing on this whole new.

Ev: That's pretty crazy.

Zach: That's going to happen, man. You've already seen it with Ethereum. I don't know the exact details as far as how much bandwidth and how much time and every that it takes to move your entire platform to another blockchain, but I'm assuming it's pretty hard.

Ryan: Interoperability is something that Rob was talking about in some earlier ICO Alert Podcasts. Mike talks about it all the time, that infrastructure where you can connect a Tron blockchain to an EOS blockchain, the person that does that, they're going to be wasting their time for a little while. But if it works, it's going to be kind of like Henry Ford. You built that engine that nobody else could stop because now, you've got different blockchains working and speaking to each other. That's still unheard of in traditional finance and accounting where you might have a company like Deloitte using all their accounting services with SAP, where maybe PricewaterhouseCoopers is using JD Edwards. And so, you've got all these talented people that only know how to use one system, so it's going to happen in blockchain. You're going to have all these developers that only know how to code for EOS, right. But they've got talent. What if there was a language for them to code on several different blockchains or a system that made it easy for them? There's a lot of maximalism for each token, but trust me, there's a whole industry between these protocols to connect them where you could definitely win a lot of gold just by being able to speak the language.

Ev: Yeah, that's true. I think that's a massive opportunity that a lot of people who are becoming maximalists are not realizing that that could be a reality one day, where you could build a dapp and it could function on multiple platforms. Then it doesn't matter. It's all about the dapp. It's not about what protocol it's on. Interesting thought there. Good Tron wins, like I said.

Ev: Let's move on to the very last piece of news here. This is a super weird story, a Twitter fumble that happened yesterday morning. I actually saw this tweet live on my phone. I went to go get breakfast with my dad yesterday, and I was looking through Twitter because why would I look at my dad, and actually talk to him in person when I can look through a feed of random people bullshitting about politics and Bitcoin.

Zach: True.

Ev: Elon Musk comes up. It's a verified Twitter. Now, the handle is not Elon Musk, which I didn't notice until later, but it said, "I'm giving 10,000 Bitcoin away to all the community. I left the post of director of Tesla. Thank you for all your support." He basically did one of these scams that we all know, which is the send me three Bitcoin, and I'll send you 10. The issue was he was one, verified, and two, it was promoted.

Zach: Wow.

Ev: Every single person that's even remotely in this space that talks about crypto, had this tweet promoted to them by an Elon Musk verified account. Now granted, the Twitter handle was wrong, and if you're still falling for this, oh my God, maybe you deserve to lose your crypto at that point, but another thing that was kind of sketchy was six or seven people commented on it, and they were also verified. This looked to, maybe someone who is new in the space, 100% legit. If you wouldn't have either, one, seen this kind of scam go down before, and or two, checked their handles to see that these weren't the real people that they were claiming to be, they're all verified. How would you know any better?

Ryan: Yeah.

Zach: Yeah, you wouldn't.

Ryan: Yeah. I think this is a Twitter is not a perfect product. We've learned that as a cryptocurrency company, as a blockchain company that Twitter, Google, all these companies are not perfect. They make decisions that they may not love, but this is just the message for all those, who are out there, who are entrepreneurs, who want to start their own companies, you can build the next Twitter. Mishaps like this are absolutely inexcusable. You have Elon Musk getting charged millions of dollars for tweeting something incorrectly. You have the president of the United States using this platform to talk about different issues. And yet, you're still allowing false accounts to be verified with your checkmark, which is so "valuable."

Ev: And they're just banning people. Pete Key. Almost had me call him Pete Key. Got banned for absolutely no reason. He's not a large, I mean, he didn't have a  massive following to begin with, but it's like he's building his channel out. He's not extreme in any way, shape or form, and he's getting banned with no reason. They didn't even give me a reason.

Zach: Yeah, and-

Ryan: We lost our account too.

Zach: And then ... Yeah, we did. And then-

Ev: Yeah, we got suspended.

Zach: We had to speak with people directly at Twitter. We had to know somebody on the inside. Pete, I mean, is talking about reaching out to Twitter, and they reach back out to him, and they don't even give him a reason. He's sitting here saying, "So what do I do?" Just like we talked about in the office right afterwards. What do you do? You have to create another Twitter.

Ev: Create another Twitter.

Zach: Because there's not another platform. I mean, we talk about it. Peepeth is one. What's another?

Ev: Mines.

Ryan: Steam It.

Zach: Mines is a great example.

Ev: Yeah.

Zach: Steam It, but it's-

Ev: Steam, it's a little bit more long-form, but it's in there or something. It's a platform that you can convey your message without fear of being banned. I mean, I just don't, I don't understand. There's some people, like with Pete, at least they shut down his profile, and he made a new one, but there's some people out there that they would get their profile shut down, if they created a new one, that would get shut down. They're not IP banned, they're DNA banned from Twitter.

Zach: Blacklisted.

Ryan: Yeah.

Ev: Yeah.

Zach: Wow.

Ryan: Shadowbanned. Well, like I said, if you make a blockchain company, if you build it on the right protocol, it works better than Twitter, these are issues. When they're public issues, every single problem is a product market fit. That means that the best in the business has not figured out how to get rid of these bots. I thought for a little while that the Twitter bots that crypto people were dealing with were pretty much from Twitter. That's how bad it was. I thought Twitter was doing it on purpose.

Zach: My only thing with this is decentralization can't fix what's happening with social media. What I mean by that is you're going to have another problem spring up. If you go far down the decentralization hole, then you have other problems in now people who aren't 18 and younger using it. Now you have 12-year olds watching videos because it's fully decentralized of people killing each other. There always has to, it seems like, and someone will figure this out, but it seems like there's always going to need to be that in some aspects, that aspect of centralization. Maybe someone will come around and prove me wrong, but I just, I don't know. It just seems like there's going to need to be some mixture of decentralization and centralization.

Ryan: I don't even think decentralization is, I hear you, I don't think it's the main issue. I think the main issue is honestly that these platforms have errors and maybe they're not serving their purpose for everyone to do the same thing. I feel like the reason there are several different platforms, and why we do matriculate from LiveJournal to Myspace to Facebook. Why did we move on? Why did we do that? It's because this interface was better. If you are building a company, please understand that the large companies, they fall too. Five years ago, we would be talking about Yahoo! the same way we talked about Amazon. Yahoo! is now defunct.

Ev: Yeah.

Ryan: That could happen to Facebook.

Zach: Facebook is going the same way, yeah.

Ryan: Twitter is very close to that. I mean, you even look at the SoundCloud could be going. I mean, this right for disruption, yes, but Twitter, I've had more than enough issues with you, and I've been using Twitter probably longer than more than anybody who is listening to this podcast. I was a very early Twitter user when they didn't even have an E in their name. I've loved social media for a long time. What I've seen now is that it's so subjected to the powers that be, that these errors that are occurring, especially for the crypto community and about crypto, I think it's almost like a ploy to make crypto look bad, to make it look like there is no integrity in our industry or around crypto.

Ev: Yeah, I agree. I agree. How could this tweet get promoted? If this was Elon Musk saying, if this was someone else that was trying to be an imposter, and make themselves look like Elon Musk, but say something different that wasn't crypto related, would that get promoted? Would that get sent out?

Ryan: Yeah, it's a good question. I think the blue checkmark also has lost all its credibility. In fact, if you have a blue checkmark, I don't really want to interact with you. Shout out to Justin Woo. I'm glad you got that. That's cool, but I don't think it matters to me anymore. I think what matters now is your content.

Ev: Well, and it seems like with this specific case, all these verified people actually commented on it, and said, "Hey, this worked. This was great." Or whatever. It seems like people with verified accounts sold them off or somehow somebody got these verified accounts that wasn't legit. I don't know, but-

Ryan: It's people in the crypto community are getting paid to sell their Twitters.

Ev: Yeah.

Zach: It seems like the way to maybe fix all of this is to have some type of reputation system. That's what the checkmark is supposed to be, right. It's supposed to be a reputation system in a way. The more reputable you are, you have that checkmark, but it seems like it's broken. Maybe having a more fluid reputation system, and that allows you to see users that are legitimate as opposed to not.

Ryan: You know what's funny? You guys remember Klout? K-L-O-U-T.

Ev: I kind of remember that, yeah.

Ryan: It was a little score that you would have next to some of your social media. Klout went out of business in the past year, very interestingly, right. Because Klout, my highest Klout score was 65. I was like, oh my gosh. I'm a star.

Zach: What does that even mean?

Ryan: Basically out of 100.

Zach: Out of 100, okay, gotcha.

Ryan: You'll go to Apple will have 99.

Zach: Gotcha, gotcha.

Ryan: Google has 99. But an influencer in your industry would have a 70, right, in a niche. When I was really into commercial real estate marketing, I was in this community, and I was tweeting, and I was very important in that community. Then the process went out of business because they didn't have a way to monetize or whatever the case may be, but it could be that a company bought the company. They bought them out, and just put them out of business. They said, "This reputation score is not good." You look at all the bugs in crypto on Twitter. It looks like Twitter has such a cryptocurrency community that they're almost trying to shadowban and oppress the whole community from operating the way they're supposed to. Why is that people with podcasts on reputable shows are getting destroyed? Why is it that people are losing their Twitter accounts this year?

Ev: I don't know.

Ryan: Why is it that Jack Dorsey will go to Consensus, and say he loves crypto, but then he's not really listening to the community. When he was at Consensus, that's when we didn't have our Twitter account. That's when there were Twitter bots. Every time we tweeted something, we would-

Zach: Yeah, at the, I forgot about the Twitter bots.

Ryan: I will never-

Zach: They've been gone for a while.

Ryan: I didn't sleep for weeks because I was reporting all these reports, but this wasn't happening to my friend who works at IBM.

Zach: Yeah.

Ev: Yeah.

Ryan: Why?

Ev: I don't know.

Zach: Yeah, I mean, the Twitter bots happen because you had the ability to send money that was obviously in that bull market phase as well, send a lot of money, and gain a lot of money very quickly.

Ev: Right.

Zach: That's where I see they took advantage of a system where someone would send something, and they would, the ether would go directly. Obviously, we all know about cryptocurrency, but they were taking advantage of that. That's what I think. That's why think in this industry, it's very easy to, at least at the beginning, make money with those bots.

Ryan: Yeah, if you build the next big blockchain social network, like what Tron or some other people are trying to do, that's how scared Google, Facebook, and Twitter are of-

Ev: Agreed.

Ryan: They're so-

Ev: And they're all joining together kind of, and acting in the same. They'll do a massive ban of a group all at once. They wait for one person to move and ban the person, then they all do it at once. It's like, I mean, these are the ways that people communicate now. I don't know if this is how you want to go about it. Is this a free speech thing? Because if you ban me from Twitter, are you taking away my speech? No not really, but that is still a powerful platform. If you take me off all platforms now, if you ban my IP address, if I have my own website, is that a free speech thing? It's interesting and it gets very political and philosophical.

Ev: We're running towards the end of the show here, but just to play on what you said, maybe a thought to leave our audience with, cue is, when you say, is total decentralization a good thing? Because we've all seen the dregs of the internet out there. With dark web and with 4Chan and 8Chan, people are going to run into some crazy stuff online regardless of what platform it is. I think that you need to weigh the balance. Obviously there's dangerous information out there, and we don't want like child pornography is not something anyone wants online. But the problem is with being afraid of total decentralization is now you start to pick and choose what's not appropriate, and it just becomes, in my opinion, and again, this is something that I'm sure even at this table, everyone has different feelings on it, it becomes a slippery slope in my opinion. Where who gets to dictate what's right and what's wrong to say?

Ev: If you're going to totally decentralize it, I think that's better because you can let the free market sort it out. If somebody is going to be a crazy bastard, they're not going to get a lot of likes. They're not going to get a lot followers. Nobody is going to send them basic attention token because the market will sort it out, but sometimes people bring up things that are a little bit insensitive, but maybe have some truth to them, and they're things that you need to talk about. Maybe it's a problem with society that you need to hash these ideas out. The country was founded on free speech, and things like that, and we've come so far by basically being able to fight with each other. It should be a brawl every day in a civil way. I don't know. It's food for thought for you guys. I don't know if you guys want to voice your opinion on that, tell me I'm an idiot, whatever, and then we'll wrap this baby up.

Zach: Yeah, definitely. I mean, you wrapped it up perfectly. I just want to tell the guys out there or ladies as well. Telegram-

Ryan: Thank you.

Zach: Telegram in the description. We did start that Telegram group. The link will be in the description. Join us. It's going to be free and open, so you guys are going to be able to comment and everything. Looking forward to connecting with all you guys. Glad to be back with the crew.

Ryan: He's back.

Zach: This was great, man. I'm looking forward to talking with you guys.

Ev: Ryan?

Ryan: Yeah, I mean, I think what you talked about is a big deal. I think people are going to chew on that for a little bit. I think that's why the world is so big. That's why the internet is so big. There's room for people to find their communities. I mean, I always compare it to if you watch a movie in The US, like a big blockbuster hit, there's a guarantee there's going to be guns, and guns blasting, and explosions in it, extreme violence, compared to if you go to see a film in Italy, where there may be some breasts, right? There might be some male cheeks, where that would never happen in a blockbuster hit in The US, right. It's like what's on the barometer of appropriate for sexuality or violence. That's just a cue to these are both advanced societies. Why is it that we have these different systems? It's because different people like different stuff, and you can go wherever you want to go.

Ryan: I think the more platforms that are out there, the better, and kudos to the person that balances all of that to the best of their ability. That's why these big companies, they please a lot of people. I really just hope that people get out of their comfort zone, and see that a lot of these Twitters, these Googles, they need to be chiseled by the cryptocurrency companies, build a dapp that's better.

Ev: Boom, I love it. Well, that's it, guys. Sounding off this week, Roundtable number 22. Thanks for joining us again.

Ev: (singing)


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