Ryan Dennis and Connor Alexander join The Roundtable with me this week while Q is in Malta.
Evan: The ICO Alert Roundtable Podcast is a casual discussion between members of the ICO Alert team. At no point is anything said in this podcast to be construed as legal, tax, financial or investment advice. For sake of transparency members of this week's episode own the following cryptocurrency, Bitcoin, Ethereum, EOS, Tron, Cardano. You're looking like one of those guys. Look good, feel good play good boys.
Evan: Here we are. We look good. We feel good. We play good. This is the ICO Alert Roundtable. I am here with a couple of my friends, Zach is out of nowhere in sight. That's because he is in Malta, and there is a reason I'm not in Malta. I was supposed to be there. But anyway, let's introduce our guests here, Mr. Ryan Dennis. How are you sir?
Ryan: Hey guys. I'm feeling great today. This is such a pleasure to be sitting here with these fine gentlemen talk about blockchain dream come true.
Evan: So Ryan has been requested by our lovely audience to be on the show more often. So now that Q is gone, and you filled in a couple of times -- maybe we'll just get rid of him all together.
Ryan: Yes, shout out to the modern investor. I like modern things. Modern Art, modern movies.
Evan: Modern music.
Ryan: Yeah. Anything modern.
Evan: Modern technology. Anything modern. Okay. Moving along. We also have to my left, Connor Alexander. Connor, now you've been on the show before, but not in video format. So people that were out there, they were wondering about your voice. They thought maybe Who's this mysterious guy? He's sounds like an old guy. But he's actually a young kid. What does he look like? And now they finally get to see your face revealed.
Connor: Finally. Yeah.
Evan: So Connor, tell us what do you do in ICO Alert because everybody knows Ryan but nobody knows you.
Connor: Well, technically I'm a junior data analyst which means I just looked at all the ICOs that come through. I'm the decision maker I get to say rejected or not basically.
Connor: Yeah. I find the scams sometimes.
Evan: You find the scams, what is ... Well, we won't talk about scams on the show. But do know if you're an ICO Alert subscriber, you listen to our shows, we do actually use a third party and we do a lot of thorough vetting ourselves to weed out the bad projects.
Ryan: Yeah, actually, Mike, our COO and founder, he's coming out with a report on the other listing sites out there and how many scams are listed on their sites. We are part of a consortium to police the ICO industry. When you got a guy like Connor here, as smart as him, trust me, you're in good hands when you use ICO Alert. For real though.
Evan: So we'll be coming out with a list of the scams or just the amount of scams that are-
Ryan: No, we're not going to list them individually. I think he's got a really amazing report coming out just about scams in the industry.
Ryan: The different third parties that actually use modern technology to vet out some of the bad players. I'll say irresponsible players in the ICO game [crosstalk 00:02:54].
Evan: Right, very cool.
Connor: That's the big thing like, being able to self regulate. This industry is like the ... that's whatever all the regulatory agencies are looking for. If no one takes the first step and says, "Okay, we're gonna actually take action on this," then, you know, here's asking for like the SEC to take the next step and policing us.
Ryan: I love what we do because it's actually much more important like this show is fun and podcasts are fun, interviews are fun, but forget the talk it's like we actually are out here policing the industry. On a real level we're actually protecting investors and that's so crazy. When you say it doesn't sound like much, but think about your grandma's $40,000 that she's had saved up since World War Two and what's your family going to do with it. And then you make a family decision. Well, what about crypto and then it goes to some old coin that ends up being-
Ryan: Yeah, BitConnect could be worse than BitConnect in a lot of cases. So, it's really important to make sure that you have obviously some of the brightest talent in the country maybe the world working on this stuff. What school did you go to?
Connor: I go to Pitt. So yeah.
Evan: He's still in school.
Ryan: Not a lot of schools better than University of Pittsburgh, whether in Pittsburgh or not. So the fact that you're kind of coupling this with your education, and you've got a few other people in your team, too. So what is it like being going from the internship program to being a full fledged member now?
Connor: It's been a wild ride. There was a bit of an in between period, but we don't speak about that.
Evan: You were with a questionable project.
Connor: Yes. Yeah.
Ryan: You came back to the light.
Evan: You came back to the light.
Connor: Yeah, so now I'm back here and back here with Henry and some other, you know, Cassidy-
Evan: We'll have to get Henry on the show once too. He's another-
Connor: We definitely need to get Henry on. He would like that.
Evan: Yeah. So I have a question for you guys then. What do you think would you want to see ICO Alert, maybe publish a list of fraudulent projects? Because there is a list out there if you look at the consortium. There's a web form that you can fill out and put the information in. But would you want to see us publicize more of those projects that we find that are fraudulent to protect investors or do you think that maybe we shouldn't cross that line because there's a difference between outright scams and projects that just don't have their shit together. For lack of a better term.
Ryan: I wanna have my hands on that if we were to do something even approaching that level. But I'd say there's a lot of reasons to proceed with caution when doing that.
Ryan: From a public relations standpoint alone, we're going to war with every single one of these companies at marketing to say this is a fraudulent firm or has problematic issues. And that's just with information that's readily available to the public, which means we don't really know what's going on behind the scenes and it already looks bad. You're going to get the brunt of that from their network or community. Some of these communities, you think that they're not ... Some of these ICOs you think they're not legitimate or they don't really have that ... It's not a really big deal to call them out. And then they have 2000 retweets on everything. They have a lot of telegram followers and people who will come at you kind of like how people come at Beyonce when, you know, and her fans will kind of take over Twitter for two minutes.
Evan: I would say Shitcoins probably have a little bit less following than Beyonce.
Connor: You would be surprised.
Ryan: You'd be surprised.
Evan: Well, I guess the difference is, people are actually investing their money into Shitcoins.
Ryan: Yeah, shout out to Beyonce. I always give shoutouts on your show.
Ryan: And her fans the Beyhive. But in the same kind of way people are passionate about these things. So, the other thing is, if I was an investor and I wanted to measure against, okay, I have maybe 15 different projects I've invested a little bit into, and I can cross check this list of what is probably a scam. The bad part about it is if we get it wrong, and somebody holds that against us from an investment standpoint, we have to be very cognizant of the backlash that would come against us.
Ryan: What one of these projects proves us wrong and ends up becoming very successful. That also as an ICO Alert company makes us look a certain way. We definitely know what we're doing. So, we'd like to keep that responsibility and our third parties as long as possible, I think, and follow up on their work and do our own scan for 5,200 data points after we see what did.
Evan: Right. Well, I guess a good way to say it without saying it is, If you look on ICO Alert, and you see a project listed there, it's already gone through a full vetting process from our end. So if you see it there, then it's likely not something that's been flagged by us or by our third party. Also, if you look at the consortium online, there's a list there that you can actually look into yourself and find things that us or a third party or anyone else in that group is actually flagged as being fraudulent, but all right, let's move into the show. We've got a couple of things going on this episode. The reason we have Connor here is because we have a very exciting new project, a new protocol we actually want to talk about it's called Algorand and you might have heard about it.
Evan: We're going to get into that a little bit later. We're also going to bring back my new favorite segment. It's called Good Tron Bad Tron. So if you're a big Tron fan out there will be posting this in the Tron telegram like always and we want to always get your feedback on everything that is going on in the industry and everything we're talking about. So, we're gonna do some comments from last week, just want to run through three that really stood out to me. The first one is from Slappy [McFartzak 00:08:24]. He said, "Lots of chitchat couldn't find where they were talking serious about anything." And you know Mr. McFartzak, I think that we're going to try and be more serious this week, Mr. McFartzak. I think that you know we should be more serious.
Ryan: Yeah. Yeah, we're not serious enough.
Evan: What do you think Connor? Are we serious enough?
Connor: Yeah. I mean, I think we need to really raise the level to like obviously, Mr. McFartzak is like, he's setting the bar and we need to hit that.
Ryan: Is it Slappy or Sloppy McFartzak?
Evan: I was tried so hard to do this segment without laughing.
Ryan: Serious [crosstalk 00:09:00], serious [inaudible 00:09:01].
Evan: It's Slappy Mcfartzak.
Ryan: Gosh, it’s not a joke.
Connor: Yeah, you can't make fun of a guy [crosstalk 00:09:08].
Evan: Don't get them confused with his brother Sloppy McFartzak. His brother put on a little bit of weight and so-
Ryan: Her sister is slippy.
Connor: Now you're going insulting his family. I mean, you know, Mcfartzak.
Evan: I didn't mean to insult the McFartzaks out there but, okay, let's move on. Michael Hillier our guy from down under he said, "Great roundtable as usual guys loving the chat as always wonder if you have heard of Power Ledger?" He said it's a decentralized electricity utility token down in Australia. So he seems to have maybe some investment or interest in this project. I don't know anything about Power Ledger but I asked you guys before the show what you know about Power Ledger. So what do you guys know about Power Ledger?
Ryan: When I was investing in old coins back in 2017 Power Ledger was always coming up on my list of interesting coins for many reasons. Power Ledger is really going to be hitting on an industry that is ripe for disruption. And by that I mean commercial real estate, especially. In the United States, 30% of pollution comes from commercial real estate buildings. So when people run their air conditioning, lights, go to a hotel everything's always on.
Ryan: Doesn't turn off and people waste air conditioning just for the hell of it at their hotel room, right? But in offices too people leave the lights on. So I've actually worked for an IoT slash, you know, utilities real estate company that was focused on technology. Shout out to the hashtag CREtech Community. CREtech or Commercial Real Estate technology is a huge industry because commercial real estate buildings are using the same technology platforms they used in the 60's. Building engineers use pencil and paper to write down how many kilowatts are going in and out of your building. So think about that you own a $45 million skyscraper and you're pretty much documenting your costs by somebody's opinion and there could be mistakes. Could be typos. So we were trying to raise the level of technology in their systems by mapping the data points and mapping the control points. They're called in building engineer systems. So you could actually see how much wattage was going in and out of these buildings by the second, pretty much.
Ryan: So I was saying, let's put that on the blockchain. Let's kind of document it. Power ledger is doing something incredible because their goal originally, I don't know what they're up to as of late, I'm sure somebody who's a fan of the project, come on and leave a comment, let us know what you think. But they were actually coming up with ideas so that people could actually trade that wattage between their neighborhoods or maybe in a different network. So imagine if you used extra power and you're building you know, this week or in your house this week, and you could actually bid or auction off some of those extra watts for your neighbor. The reason that happens is because when you actually using power from Con Edison or one of these large companies, Duquesne lights or something like that. You're actually taking on way more than need because you're asking for more. I don't want to mess with the terminology it's different everywhere.
Evan: You are very knowledgeable about this though.
Ryan: I worked in CREtech don't come at me bro. Okay, I've had a career before this.
Evan: It's a good thing we had you on the [crosstalk 00:12:11].
Ryan: I had a real career before I was being really serious with McFartzak, Okay. But, for real, these buildings this is where businesses live. This is important stuff, you live in this building when you work here. We're here all hours of the day.
Evan: Probably in this office more than I am at home to be honest.
Ryan: Yeah, and you talking about pollution, I mean, look at Hong Kong. There's tons of buildings there that don't use pollution. So anyway Power Ledger was ... They're trying to really find a way for us to be able to bid and trade energy. Which to me goes back to the Satoshi whitepaper as a dream of people to take back the centralized power and this power being kilowatt hours.
Evan: What are your thoughts there, young Connor about Power Ledger?
Connor: I think, I think Ryan really hit all the points there. Yeah.
Evan: Can't say much more about it, huh?
Connor: Yeah, I don't know much of ... If I would speculate on it but-
Ryan: Don't come at me bro.
Connor: You know.
Ryan: Don't taze me bro.
Evan: Michael Hillier, there's our take on Power Ledger. Thank God we had Ryan on the show to talk about it because I've heard that name before and I've heard it thrown around the office and whatnot. But I haven't looked into it much it's hard to look into every single project so we try our best if you're out there you're watching the YouTube video feel free to comment, if we like you, if we hate you, it's usually if we like you or if we hate you you get on the show. If you're anywhere in between you usually don't get on the show. So feel free to insult Connor outright, you'll probably get on the show, obviously any shade you throw at Q I'm going to blast it and then you know, obviously we've got our roundtablers that are always getting mentioned in the comments. So the last comment I want to go over before we dive into this week's topics, Cat Lover said, "What a joke." Cat lover I appreciate it man. I know I tell really good jokes not sure exactly what joke you were talking about. But, it must have been good because you said, "What joke."
Ryan: He has another comment too.
Evan: Yeah. He said, I don't remember.
Ryan: Something about amateurs.
Evan: Yeah. He said these guys are amateurs or something. Which he's right. I mean, I do this for free.
Ryan: Shout out to all the amateur photographers out there. Amateur videographers.
Evan: And shout out Cat Lover.
Ryan: Yeah. Shout out cat lover. We love you. We love cats. We love dogs.
Ryan: Shout out to pets.
Evan: Anybody that has that much love in their heart, you know, to just have a cat take care of it. And then comment what a joke when they really found something I said funny. I really appreciate that man. You help me sleep well at night.
Ryan: Amateur comedians they've worked hard. I mean, nights and weekends.
Evan: Yeah, they do. They do man it's hard. It's a hard life out here. So anyway, we're gonna dive into some more serious topics here thank you to Mr. McFartzak Ford for getting us down with the seriousness. Algorand, this is a project that I first saw back in the summer and the reason that it really specifically caught my eyes because I looked into the team more and more. It was founded by an Italian gentleman. His name is Sylvio McCauley. And I wanted to look more into Silvio and what his background is. He's a professor at MIT School of computer science. The thing is, if you actually go to the Wikipedia page for, I think it's like zero proof ... What is the term?
Ryan: Zero knowledge proof?
Evan: Zero knowledge proof. See, look, I'm an amateur. If you look up the actual Wikipedia for zero knowledge proof he's actually mentioned in the history of zero knowledge proof. And I'll show a screen cap here, but they were first conceived in 1985. This is straight from the zero knowledge proof Wikipedia by Shafi Goldwasser and Silvio McCauley in their paper the knowledge complexity of interactive proof systems. So this guy has been around since the beginning, since before even blockchain and he's like basically a hardcore OG in the game. Him and a bunch of people from MIT's computer science department over there in Boston are ... They're building a new protocol, a new consensus protocol. And we have Connor on the case. Connor actually has the whitepaper with him. Why don't you tell us about the white paper?
Connor: Yeah. Well, the whitepaper is pretty extensive.
Ryan: Well, you have the actual white here?
Connor: Oh yeah, I've got the actual whitepaper.
Evan: This is the actual whitepaper. We do ... See Mr. McFartzak, we do serious shit on the show. We have the f***ing white paper printed out.
Ryan: Printed it out.
Connor: It's all 7 pages of it.
Ryan: Did they fax that to you?
Connor: Well, I mean, Silvio, he connected with me on LinkedIn this morning.
Evan: Boom. We got the inside info.
Connor: Inside info. But compared to bitcoin’s whitepaper which is only nine pages which for comparisons here this academic paper is pretty big and naturally I didn't read all of it, but I printed all of it out. And I think that counts just as much.
Evan: Look he even has his notes here. Hold that up.
Connor: Yeah, there's notes.
Evan: See, he's got notes on that. Will zoom in for that.
Ryan: Hold on. So what you're saying is size doesn't matter when it comes to whitepaper?
Connor: Yep. I think ... Well, I mean-
Evan: You know, yesterday was the 10 year anniversary of the Bitcoin whitepaper. And that's only nine pages.
Connor: That's right.
Ryan: How many pictures are in that white paper over there?
Connor: This one?
Connor: There's like zero.
Evan: It reads very much like an academic paper. From what I remember, you have to go on to, like, a Pearson library type thing to download it.
Connor: Yeah, you gotta go into Cornell's library.
Evan: Yeah, Cornell's library to actually download the whitepaper. So, this team is very academic, which in some circumstances, I kind of hate academics and all of academia.
Ryan: Yeah. Why not.
Evan: So we're definitely blowing up a project that-
Ryan: So that's all the universities struggling to get fund raising.
Evan: Universities do not struggle to get fundraising. I'm sorry.
Evan: They're doing fine.
Ryan: Well, historically, black colleges do. Shout out to HBCU.
Evan: I think universities do really fine with their in discretionary loans that all people in the U.S. can get for like backwards to be playing underwater for $100,000 degree to do that. So, anyway that's a whole different podcasts entirely let's stick on Algoram. So, tell us a bit about the protocol and white paper and what you found out about it.
Connor: Yeah, so Algorand is like, it's trying to be a proof of what is a proof of stake consensus mechanism, like very similar to aura Ouroboros which is Cardano's proof of stake in it like mechanism. And they got over 30 patents on, like they're all pending right now. But that's something to think about. I know Cardano and Ouroboros they don't do any patents. They haven't filed any patents still patent free.
Evan: Okay, why do you think that is?
Connor: Well, Charles wants everything to be open source. It furthers the ... There's no centralized entity to really hold all of the-
Evan: So does that mean that algorithm will be more centralized because they hold these patents?
Connor: Well, the technology will be more centralized I guess. No one can really just copy it if the patents are ... Yeah the entity will be more centralized but the actual protocol is debatable more or less centralized. There's no real-
Connor: It's hard to really ... Depending on how you define decentralized it's pretty equal to Ouroboros.
Evan: Okay. So and I heard you also mentioned something that there can't be any hard forks with this is that because of the patents or is that another reason?
Connor: No. So, just how they, basically how the consensus is set up the chance of that there's actually going to be a fork is like one of the trillion or something.
Connor: So, it's because-
Evan: So it can be quantified how much there'll be a fork.
Connor: Yes. I believe it's one in a trillion chance of like-
Ryan: So you're saying there's a chance?
Connor: There is a chance.
Evan: So give us then the elevator pitch on this. Why should our viewers watch our listeners give a shit about Algorand other than Silvio McCauley being involved.
Connor: Well, it's because basically it allows for scalability and decentralization to both go hand in hand, which has never really happened before. If you look at things that are like EOS is more scalable. Sure. But it's also you got 21 main block producers, right? So you got 21 main guys you got to vote for. And then you don't really have much of a choice than over that. And you can be censored or whatever. But it is scalable. But what Silvio is like, really solved and what you know, in a lot of ways this is comparable to Ouroboros because they're really doing the same thing with just like very minor differences. But, Sylvio is trying to make it so that it's decentralized and scalable.
Connor: So each person who is part of the network contributes or has the chance to contribute in equal amount to actually finding a new block and being chosen. So, no matter if you're on your phone, and you're sending someone Algorand you can be on the network. It's like very low energy-
Evan: So you don't need to have a mining rig like with Bitcoin or something, you could literally just hold a wallet on your laptop and there's a chance that you could be a person that's generating the next block or whatever.
Connor: Yeah, yeah. And honestly it's like that differentiates because right now in Bitcoin you got two groups of people you got the miners and you then you got the users and they have conflicting interests at points in time. But when the users are actually contribute to the consensus, then that's a real game changer where your everyday person is actually basically like a minor. Everyone has, like, a bit equal and like the same interest.
Evan: Right. Yeah. It's interesting and as far as this project goes I saw the team back in June or July so I kept it on my radar. They keep everything very close to the chest. There's been no announcements about the token economics. There was no ICO apparently they never ... I don't know if they never consider doing an ICO.
Connor: Well, they did consider doing an ICO because actually when I first saw him is when they submitted their Algorand to ICO Alert. And it popped up in my thing and, I had to go and look through them and say ... And at first I was gonna reject them because I thought there's no way that these guys, these guys are too good. Like, you know?
Connor: And on their site, they don't have any LinkedIn profiles.
Evan: So you thought actually, that the team ... Because I do remember on their site, it was, and I think they've updated their site since then. But it was like, just pictures of them and then short profiles.
Evan: And I could see you thinking that's a scam because you sometimes you see the team is like, all right, the head of technology for IBM is our founder, and you're like, "What? that's not true." But then yeah, so that's funny that you actually flag them because you thought the team was too legit to be real.
Ryan: Yeah. I love what you said about ... I want to tie in the zero knowledge proof part because a lot of people may not know what that is. But I'm a huge fan of Milton Demers and the work that she's done. And she was actually talking on a podcast recently about how decentralization is a really poor way of getting people to kind of evangelize the blockchain industry because it's so hard to understand for a lot of people, even people who throw it around every day. But zero knowledge proof actually is an interesting concept for like illuminating or at least exemplifying decentralization. Because zero knowledge proof basically means there's no data of any kind in a central location held by the company, right, or the way that you're kind of doing your proof of stake or whatever kind of model you're using. So for example if I had a messaging app like Adamant, we did a report on that was zero knowledge proof or was trying to be. If I send a text message to Connor there's not gonna be any data of where I'm coming from, my IP address, what kind of computer I'm using, my geographic location, going through the system to use to send the message.
Ryan: It will just be the text.
Ryan: You know, ideally. So from that perspective, if there is really no central location that's farming all of this data, then there's no location. That's kind of at an advantage with the data and hopefully with the [crosstalk 00:24:16].
Evan: Or no central location that can be exploited for that data in the same breath.
Ryan: Right. So many million ways that this could be kind of eliminated. It's exciting to think about projects that are actually using this and patenting this kind of stuff. It's crazy.
Evan: Yeah, I'll be interested in looking at those patents. I'm sure that their patent numbers are somewhere right?
Connor: Oh yeah. Well, they are right here.
Evan: Oh, oh, there we go. See.
Connor: I figured there's 30 of them because I counted them.
Evan: See, Connor man, I'm glad we got him here to talk about it. Connor is one of the more technical savvy guys.
Ryan: Listen to the youth.
Evan: Yeah, I figured we bring them in. So just to talk a little bit more about the zero knowledge proofs and what they are. Again the Wikipedia definition is saying that zero knowledge proof can prove to another party that they know the value of x without conveying any information, apart from the fact that they know the value of x. So I think I remember Rob Finch talking about an example of this would be if you had your ID, and you wanted to get into a bar, and the only part of the info that they need is your birthday or your age, but you didn't want to show everything else to prove that it's you. There's a way that you can verify privately that this ID belongs to you without showing all that information. And then the only part that needs to be seen is the the actual birthday or the age. So that's kind of like a little analogy.
Ryan: The first person to solve that that identity without giving away too much else will be one very wealthy person or to have a very, very, very productive system or MVP that they built.
Connor: Yeah, well, you know, one of those things which is also an MIT project is Enigma which were basically they ... I don't know if it's zero knowledge proof specifically, but it's private smart contracts. Where you can execute something ... I think it does involve zero knowledge proofs because you have to basically do computations on like data. And you say, Okay, I know this one bit, I'm going to put it in, you know, plug it into this smart contract that's hidden from and it's a black box, because, like, you know, say, I'm an accountant and my employer I gotta pull some payroll info, but my employer doesn't want me to see that he's paying the other guy way more than I'm getting paid because he's his brother or whatever.
Evan: Employers are evil like that.
Evan: Watch out employers.
Connor: Anyway, these MIT kids made Enigma which is still, it was an ICO and now it's like, obviously not doing so hot price wise, but they're still building it. And that's interesting to see if they actually come up with anything.
Evan: Yeah, a lot of projects coming out of the Boston area MIT and Harvard and stuff like that. And I think Ryan you and I actually talked a little bit about that the last time-
Ryan: Yeah we love Boston.
Evan: Ryan has beef with Boston.
Ryan: Shout out to the Yankees.
Evan: Another interesting thing about Algorand was Charles Hoskinson actually tweeted this he said ... Oh, so let me talk a little bit more about algorand why they're in the news why we all of a sudden brought this up. They released a press release I believe it was last week they actually raised $62 million in seed funding and they hired two executives from companies Fuse and LogMeIn. So they have now a COO and a CEO. I might be wrong about that, but the exact C level positions but I'm going to actually work to try and get those guys on the show. I interacted with one of them on Twitter a little bit. But one thing I do want to mention is once this press release came out, Charles Hoskinson, who you should know from Cardono actually tweeted, "Congratulations Silvio. We finally have some real competition," and he linked the Coindesk article that talked about that.
Evan: So, Hoskinson getting it on the action he must not see any of these other protocols as competition which is interesting to me. And then you know the fact that he shouts out Silvio and the algorithm team directly is, you know, it's a shot of confidence.
Connor: Definitely and like the fact that in the Ouroboros paper which is Cardano's like consensus mechanism paper, they actually quote or they reference Algorand and they say other similar type things. And they talked about it briefly. And algorand did the same thing with Ouroboros where they say another paper close to us is Ouroboros blah, blah, you know, all that. And then they go through how it's different and, you know, basically they're really working the same space, but naturally, neither of them, neither Algorand nor Ouroboros [inaudible 00:28:52] anything like EOS or any other major like, these things that you might think of as proof of stake.
Evan: Right. It's interesting that there's two major projects that actually mention each other in their white papers, right in their white papers. And it's not like this war that you normally see between protocols with some of the other things.
Ryan: I think that's that's why the bear market has been good for crypto, is people are more interested in partnering than kind of patrolling each other, hating on each other. And as soon as I saw that story, Fuse is a legit company. And so when the CEO leaves Fuse, or whatever, makes his next move, a CEO's resume is very important. As a former recruiter, if you're a CEO, and you have a string of poor performing companies, your career is kind of over. You just have to become a consultant or advisor. So when somebody from Fuse goes to a crypto company, it's a big deal.
Ryan: Number two, he said, which would interest Charles Hoskinson and Input Output Hong Kong, Hoskinson's company, what would interest them is the fact that [inaudible 00:29:56] said that the company is really interested in having a diverse set of investors being involved, so that they could get validation and ideas from diverse parts of the world-
Ryan: ... to make sure the company wasn't super centralized. That's super legit. I love that. I like diversity and inclusion for many reasons. And I know what you're thinking, that the black guy loves diversity and inclusion. Of course, he does. No, it's because when you have diversity ideas-
Evan: It's exactly what I was thinking.
Ryan: Exactly, you know? When you have ideas from different parts of the world that is inherent in your white paper, and in your investment team, and your advisors, you're going to have better ideas than people from one country.
Evan: You're right.
Ryan: When we think about different countries and what they're experts at, whether it be food culture, music, or money, or how they handle Swiss banks.
Evan: And if you want to have a protocol where everyone's using it, if you want to actually reach mass adoption, you need to cater to the needs of people everywhere.
Connor: And central-
Evan: You can't just be ... Yeah, and what you're going to say, I imagine is like centralization or decentralization should be about expanding across cultures, right?
Ryan: Don't gaslight me. Decentralization should be-
Evan: I'm done, I'm done cutting them off.
Ryan: I'm just kidding. We're on the same level.
Evan: I'll hold 'em down. I hold 'em down.
Ryan: No, the truth of the matter is you're right, is if we are going to be interested in cool projects, that's one thing, but let's talk about projects that are doing things the right way, conscientiously. At ICO Alert, we vet a lot of projects, probably more projects than any other site. So when we see these things, we're kind of bored of like, what looks good. We want to know what is good. And when they raised their $62 million, their $62 million dollars to me is louder than a lot of other companies who have raised more.
Evan: Well, and they raise $62 million from private capital. I mean, a lot of these companies that did ICOs last year, you see, oh, they raised 40 million in an ICO when it was the hot streak of ICOs. And it's like, well, it's all people that are Bitcoin rich that don't have any discretion with their own money-
Evan: ... and then that project lost all the money. This is actual cold hard cash, $62 million, people that did their due diligence on the project, people that believed in Sylvio and believed in the team. So I don't know, I'm excited to see what happens. I do have an interview out with Mr. Arul Murugan, who is starting a fund, actually, for Algorand specific companies-
Ryan: Algo Capital.
Evan: Algo Capital. Shout out to Arul and all of Algo Capital and all of Algorand. We're going to definitely follow this closely. Connor, maybe you and I will start a little side channel or something, and we'll talk about it in our free time.
Ryan: Whoa, I need a cut in of the check there. What's going on? Okay? But Algorand, really cool project, did things the right way, and they really want to record a large number of transactions. That's something you see Vitalik Buterin talking a lot about. You see EOS, [inaudible 00:32:52] talking about that all the time. Everybody wants to get more transactions per second. If they do it, then they win. I mean, pretty much it's the first one to the cheese.
Connor: Right, yep, and that's the thing, but maintaining the decentralized-likeness, that's the real key. Because you can do that on, like AWS, like Amazon's web server, but you can't do that on, like decentralized from everyone else. And that's really the key, where these other companies or whatever, like EOS, where it's like, you get 21 people and-
Evan: You're bearish on EOS.
Connor: I am. I did this like Steemit article because I tried ... In the office, we're trying to do this thing and I-
Evan: What thing?.
Connor: Well, you know, like the whole BetDice thing where we're trying to-
Evan: Oh, oh, okay.
Connor: And so I had to go on there to try it, and I couldn't even go on there and lose all my money. It's like we go into like-
Evan: Maybe that's the good part of EOS.
Connor: I guess, but it's like I can't even go and like ... I can't even play the dApps because it's like, oh, you don't have enough CPU. And it's like, dude-
Evan: Oh, yeah.
Connor: ... what am I supposed to do? I don't have that problem on Tron, you know?
Connor: I lost so much Tron.
Evan: Wait a minute, did you just mentioned Tron?
Connor: Maybe, yeah.
Evan: That could be an amazing segue into my favorite part of every episode. Actually, we've only done it twice now, but bring up the scoreboard. It's time, folks, for Good Tron, Bad Tron. Boom.
Ryan: Ding, ding, ding.
Evan: We're going to put an explosion on the screen for that. All right, boys and girls, every week we sit down and we talk about things that's going on in the Tron community. All my Tron fans out there, everybody that watches the show, we appreciate all of your support, all of your comments. Good Tron, Bad Tron, Good Roundtable, Bad Roundtable, got my man, Ryan, got my man, Connor. Here's what's going to happen. I think Connor, you're going to be the tiebreaker, okay?
Connor: All right.
Evan: So we're going to talk about three things this week that's going on with Tron, the latest things going on with Tron. The very first one is Tronbet.io. Now, Connor, you actually were able to play Tronbet.io.
Evan: and we're going to show a little bit of that on the screen for you, folks, right now. So, first take of this, pretty much just like BetDice, right? Ryan, wouldn't you say?
Ryan: I would say that the interface to me, it looks a little bit like it's building off of BetDice.
Evan: Right, yeah.
Ryan: You got bigger numbers as more of a central focus.
Evan: The numbers are bigger. A big difference is you can actually pick to roll under a number, or over a number, where with EOS BetDice, you can only pick to roll under the number. So it's kind of nice that you can like pick on either side of this one.
Connor: That's right. And it's got a chat box-like.
Evan: What do you like about the chat box.
Connor: Well, I think it's a smart idea because it keeps people engaged on the site and gives people a reason to be like, "Oh, I just won all these Tron. It's good maybe not for the actual user because they would get more addicted possibly, but for the site, it's a smart thing because that's definitely a [crosstalk 00:36:01]-
Evan: Well, and I notice in the chat people are different levels. Do you know how to accomplish new levels?
Evan: Like this guy's a level seven, level 20.
Connor: You get to be higher levels by-
Evan: By losing more Tron?
Connor: Yeah, well, by wagering more Tron.
Ryan: You must conduct additional pylons.
Ryan: Like Starcraf.
Evan: I don't know. We're not familiar.
Ryan: But guess what? Some of the fans are going to be. I think chat bots, honestly on apps, I don't like them. I see a million people screaming [inaudible 00:36:26], like emojis, like just yelling extremities. It's a distraction from what I'm trying to do on the app. I think-
Evan: Which is trying to win money.
Ryan: And I want to know with an app like this, is the chat bot, is that on chain? Am I going to be incentivized to chat more?
Evan: Hmm, that's interesting. Is it on chain? I doubt it.
Evan: Yeah, I don't-
Ryan: If you have a chat bot that fast on chain, I would be impressed.
Evan: That would be very impressive. Tron is is pretty quick though. I mean, it's one of the quicker-
Ryan: It's super fast.
Evan: And I think it's ... I played EOS BetDice, tronbet.io seems pretty much the same. These things are a money pit. So if you're out there and you're thinking about playing these games, basically you just select number one through 100, and then bet if it's going to roll under or over that. Be very careful with that kind of stuff. Especially me, I have a high tolerance for risk, so when I lose like 50 TRON, I'm like, "All right. Well, I'm going to 100 to try to get my money back." And then when I lose 100, I try to bet 200, and then I bet 400, and then before you know it, my fucking mortgage is on the line, and my wife's divorce in me, and then I lose my job, and all I have left is roundtablers.
Ryan: Don't gamble. Don't gamble.
Evan: Don't gamble.
Ryan: That's my professional advice.
Evan: Did you win or lose?
Connor: Oh, no, I lost everything.
Evan: You lost everything?
Connor: Yep. I put like-
Evan: You were holding TRON before this, and now you're not holding TRON anymore?
Connor: Yeah, I think in the Slack I shared the link and I said if everyone just wants to like basically get rid of their TRON bags, this is a good way to get rid of it.
Evan: So when you lost it, did you feel like this is because of a lack of skill with using this app? Or what vibe did you get?
Connor: No, I was like, "Oh, well, that's what I signed up for. It was like handing my money over to these people.
Evan: It is addicting though.
Connor: Yeah. What's scary is people think that ... I see people in the chat box, they're like, "Oh, the reason I lost is because I didn't know the right strat." And I'm like, "Dude, that's not how casinos work like."
Evan: What is the strategy?
Connor: Or they fool themselves into thinking that there's some strategy.
Evan: The strategy should be, don't play at all.
Connor: Yeah, that's honestly it.
Evan: All right, round one, Good TRON, Bad TRON. Ryan, is this good TRON, or is this bad TRON?
Ryan: The app?
Ryan: It's good, TRON. I think it's a really good exemplification of an app that's working. It's up and running, it's live, you ran it right there, it looked quick, the chat bot works. People are already losing money, which means that the transactions are up. So good TRON.
Evan: I am going to agree with you on this, this is good TRON, so good TRON in the lead, out to an early lead, one nothing. Now, second part of news, and this actually wasn't in the headlines anywhere, but this is something we did a little bit of digging on our own here and found this. So there's a website out there, it's called tron.app. This is essentially like the DappRadar for TRON. I think it links directly actually from the TRON main website where you can kind of keep track of all the DApps, and all the users, or just find the links to the website, actually get ahold of them.
Evan: There is a dApp listed on Tron.app, it's called PandaFun. PandaFun, now, that sounds awesome to me. I love pandas, I love fun. I want to participate. I hold TRON. Here it is right now. Connor's bringing it up on the screen. Now, the problem with PandaFun is I go to their website to have fun with pandas, and it's an EOS app, it's not even a TRON Dapp.
Evan: And it's listed on TRON's Dapp, like at the bottom of the website, they have EOS Beijing, they have a bunch of EOS block producers, [inaudible 00:39:56], Scatter, powered by EOS Scatter. What is TRON doing? What are you doing?
Ryan: That's good EOS for whoever developed that, getting it onto the platform, it's a good scheme.
Evan: I don't even know what PandaFun's all about because I didn't play it, but I'm going to say this is bad TRON.
Ryan: I think the word "fun" really, really is a bad idea to get me involved in something. I think that automatically means you're trying to gain me into thinking it's fun, which means it's boring as hell, stupid, waste of my time. I don't want anything to do with pandas because they're people too, they deserve their own space. I don't want to have fun with panda. What are you talking about?
Evan: I want to have fun with pandas.
Ryan: Pandas are like people, they mind their own business, you mind yours? What do you mean have fun with pandas?
Evan: Pandas aren't allowed to have fun?
Ryan: Pandas can have fun with pandas. They don't want to hang out with you. They want to be on the trees, they want to be rolling around playing jokes. They don't want to put in some zoo so you can have "TRON fun" with them.
Evan: No one said that they had to be in a zoo, okay? They're on the TRON blockchain, they're having fun.
Ryan: I don't know. What's in a name? Don't like PandaFun.
Evan: All right.
Ryan: Love pandas, love fun. Hey, PandaFun.
Evan: So is this PandaFun being listed as a dApp on Tron.app? I'm guessing that PandaFun's eventually going to go to a TRON dApp. I mean, what is your take on this Connor?
Connor: I think whoever made TRON dApps, I don't think it's actually from TRON.
Evan: Okay, it's not from TRON.
Connor: Yeah. So it'd be like some ... Basically, if some coin listed on, try to get on ICO Alert, and then they weren't ICO.
Ryan: But I have to say this, it's not TRON's fault what kind of doubts we build on Tron, and we can have our opinion about that. I think it's good that they have dApps coming out, but if this is actually an EOS dApp, it's not primarily for TRON. Is it a TRON dApp, or is it just a dApp that interoperability?
Connor: Maybe no one's using it on EOS, so they're like, "We need to switch to TRON because TRON actually works, and maybe these PandaFun people are like, "Wait, why do we build this on EOS? We need to switch over." And that's why they're going on TRON dApps.
Evan: Maybe they are building on TRON.
Ryan: I like interoperability, so that would make me switch to good TRON.
Evan: So you're saying good TRON for this?
Ryan: I don't know.
Evan: I'm saying bad TRON.
Ryan: You're saying bad TRON?
Evan: Connor, what do you say, tiebreaker?
Ryan: Yeah, he need to tie break for us.
Connor: I think bad TRON.
Evan: Bad TRON. Oh, we're all tied up heading into the tiebreaker round.
Ryan: Ding, ding, ding.
Evan: Ding, ding, ding, baby. So, third part of the news. Last week, we actually talked about Justin Sun. CZ from B had actually tweeted out that he was going to meet with Justin Sun at some point in the next couple days from last week. We found out what it was all about. So there is a Blockchain Charity Foundation, or BCF for short. It's initiative by Binance. It's aimed to use blockchain technology to conduct more effective charity donations. The BCF has also partnered with United Nations Development Program and they're claiming to have donated one million to the United Nations. So CZ, quote from the Binance founder himself, he said, "Moving money to deal with social problems is also another way to increase adoption. The sheer number of people who have donated to the BCF is also amazing, and I would like to thank Justin Sun who donated three million dollars to the cause."
Evan: So Justin Sun, the reason he met with Binance last week was because he was actually making a large donation to this BCF, which is Blockchain Charity Foundation.
Ryan: TRON and Binance have had a love affair for a while, I mean, if you were an early trader on Binance when they only had 10, 12, 15 coins. When I was on there and I was getting to know it, people were using Bittrex more than Binance, and TRON got up there pretty quickly and got a lot of transactions going. I got an airdrop of 500 TRON for no reason, so I was like, "Okay."
Evan: Wow, so you have a TRON bag?
Ryan: I had a TRON bag.
Evan: Oh, so you're TRON seller.
Ryan: I don't talk about my investments, okay?
Evan: TRON fans out there just lost a ton of respect for you, buddy.
Ryan: I actually don't hold any crypto right now, my brother holds.
Evan: Oh, okay.
Ryan: Yeah, yeah. Get somebody else to hurdle for you, okay? Don't hurdle your own bags. But I know that if you were on to TRON back then, you weren't really sure what they were doing. There were some claims about what they were doing with their white paper. But they've really, to be honest with you, they've shown and proved a lot to me. They've actually purchased a real company, their transactions are at times the highest in the crypto industry in terms of number of transactions. That's extremely difficult. And I do not bet against Justin Sun because he's gotten the love of Changpeng Zhao, and Zhao, I don't bet against Binance because I like that guy. That guy's a genius. Whatever he does is real. If a government comes against him, he moves, he'll move again. He doesn't have any time for you or anybody trying to stop Binance. And in September of this year, not too long ago, there was a pairing made for TRON directly to Binance coin, which means that this love affair is just getting started.
Evan: Hmm, that's interesting.
Ryan: This is good TRON, man.
Evan: So you're saying this is good TRON?
Ryan: It's great TRON, actually.
Evan: Great TRON, we need a third category. I love everything that's going on here, but I think the fact that the BCF partnered with the UN and donated one million to the UN is total bullshit, the UN doesn't need a million dollars. So I'm going to say bad TRON, and the tiebreaker is going to Connor. Is it good TRON or bad TRON Connor?
Connor: I mean, I think that this is actually pretty good for the whole space. Well, you might not like the UN or whatever, this is a good PR move to because the UN you like it or not those are the elites-
Evan: The overlords.
Connor: Yeah, they can you know, if they want to crush group crypto they can go to their respective subsidies.
Evan: So we need to pay them off like it's fucking extortion out here. Is that what you're saying?
Connor: I mean, that's just you know.
Ryan: Hey, money talks buddy.
Evan: Unbelievably good Tron wins for the second week in a row.
Ryan: Shout out to Tron.
Evan: I need to get some real Tron hypocrites on here so we can be like, actually critical of what's going on but all right good Tron wins. Tron community there's your celebration for the week. Let's move on because we are running a little bit short on time here. I want to move on to the story that just came out yet yesterday or today, it is the Bitfinex bank.
Evan: Connor why don't you tell the folks what's going on with that.
Connor: So, basically there's always been this sort of ... People are always sketched out by Bitfinex and Tethers associations and whether obviously the whole Tether unpegging and then re pegging recently is a concern. Because people thought, oh well, Bitfinex doesn't have a bank to actually hold all these dollars in. So, those dollars aren't actually there you can actually audit them so what Bitfinex did or what Tether did was they-
Evan: Come out with this PR press release.
Connor: Yeah, basically the press releases. It's from this Deltec bank which is a from Taipei, Taiwan. And basically it says, "Dear Sirs, we can confirm that at the close of the business day yesterday, the portfolio that you have has USD $1.8 billion in it." And which is like allegedly I guess that's the market price of Tether as well so meaning that okay.
Evan: So this bank-
Connor: This bank is claiming that-
Evan: Where did they come from? Do you know where this letter came from?
Connor: It came from Bitfinex.
Evan: Bitfinex tweeted this out or something?
Connor: I believe so. They said, "Look guys we actually have money in the bank." Then the signature down here says yours faithfully, and then there's a line from Deltic bank.
Evan: Look at that signature.
Connor: And there's no name associated with the signature.
Evan: You know, it's funny when I first saw that signature because I saw this on Twitter this morning. There's like a ... It's like a C and then weird loop and then there's a little dot after it. I thought that was like dust on my phone screen. I tried to wipe it off and I was like, that's part of the signature. What kind of signatures that.
Connor: Yeah. Naturally that's whoever is from Deltic bank. Who claiming that there's 1.8 billion.
Evan: Oh my god that is so shady.
Ryan: I don't like it.
Evan: We should do good tether, bad tether.
Evan: It's bad thether.
Ryan: I don't like it. Tether has been having a lot of issues recently and I think overall let's be honest the industry has issues with doing things professionally, announcing things professionally, doing marketing professionally, having good design, having the number of people in your network with a number of dollars in your wallet or having the number of members on your team that you claim. This is a problem in the industry. So when you start any formal letter with Dear Sirs number one, I have an issue with that very massaginist. Okay, I don't like that.
Evan: Yeah, why is it not Dear Maams and Sirs. unreal.
Ryan: So, if my fiance who was into crypto reads that she was like, "Oh, this doesn't apply to me. It must be a lie."
Evan: Or she just wouldn't read it.
Ryan: Why does it end with yours-
Evan: It would say Dear Sirs and then ...
Ryan: What's yours faithfully? What does that mean? I'm not faithful in a signature with no name attached. What is the signature without a name on it.
Evan: Faithfully is one of my favorite songs by Journey.
Ryan: Oh my gosh.
Evan: It's a great song. It was actually the final song played on my wedding day.
Ryan: It's not as good as Faith Evans. To be honest with you.
Evan: Faith Evans?
Ryan: Yeah, we'll have a Faith Evans versus that song.
Evan: Hello, Michael McDonald.
Ryan: Michael McDonald is my favorite artists.
Evan: I love Michael McDonald.
Ryan: After Michael Jackson. I like Michaels.
Evan: Wow. Okay.
Ryan: But No, but seriously, there's nobody who is holding up their name and putting their name on the line or their face on the line to this document.
Evan: Can you go back to that document Connor?
Connor: Sure thing.
Ryan: If you are not putting your face and your name on your project-
Evan: Well, there's no name and that signature is ... What name could that even be.
Ryan: That's the signature that I put when I'm at the grocery store and I don't want the guy behind me to know my signature.
Evan: What the hell is that?
Connor: Yep. Well, that's what tether tweeted out by saying, Oh guys, we're not a because they've been accused of being a Ponzi scheme or something like taking in all this money and then saying, "Okay, yeah, we're definitely holding all money you could take it out whenever you want." And when people say, "Oh, can I withdraw from Bitfinex?"
Evan: And they can't.
Connor: Yeah, no.
Evan: Can you go back to the letter. I love the language of the letter too. It says the letter is provided without any liability however arising on the part of the Deltic like, "Here's this info don't hold us liable if it's total bullshit."
Ryan: I mean that's the document that they wrote a letter I believe in good faith maybe, maybe it was painfully. They pass it to legal, legal said you gotta take this out, you gotta change this. Just take out the name, let's put no liability. As a lawyer that's a W that's a great ... Shout out to the lawyer team, legal team for Bitfinex. They're doing great.
Evan: And why is it in Taipei City, Taiwan when you look up Deltec bank, it's in the Bahamas?
Connor: Well that's probably where their offshore account is.
Ryan: Hey, don't believe everything you Google.
Connor: Well, here's the thing like, if they're in Taiwan, why does it say Republic of China?. Are we going to get into that debate?
Evan: Oh, well, that is a whole nother ... Let’s hold our thoughts.
Ryan: Next on the episode ...
Evan: That's a whole nother thing there. Actually that's very interesting that you point that out because that's a minor detail that may be someone in ... Like if this letter is bullshit, I'm not saying it's bullshit one way or another I wouldn't invest in tether that's not investment advice, but if someone was making this, maybe they would just put Republic of China to make it look more legit without considering that Taiwan actually does not consider itself part of China.
Connor: Yeah, that's what I was thinking. And then they say on the bottom, it is solely based ... the figure that they say is in the bank account, they say, "It's solely based on information in our possession," meaning information in your possession like, oh. I was just like, "There's Tether sending an email."
Evan: Like someone from Tether sending an email.
Connor: We have this much in our portfolio like, how much do you have at our portfolio? Well, you just told me you have this much.
Ryan: Hey, I don't like it but I have something McHugh will like if he listens ... He probably won't watch it or listen to this because-
Evan: He'll listen to it.
Evan: He's a sad guy. He's got nothing else going on.
Ryan: Cue, this is for you. We try to do everything world class here excellence in every aspect, right?
Ryan: That's like our mantra. That's not world class. World class is no matter what country or society I mean I can at least respect it. I don't have to love it, but I can respect it. I can't respect a fake signature in any country. Who does? I can't respect Dear Sirs, who you're talking to. Most of the people that are reading this on their basement their fingers are covered in Dorito dust. I don't understand why you would even claim this unless you had something else going on. So I think that if I'm interested in tether or something like that, it's been a bad week for it.
Evan: What were you just pointed out?
Ryan: The worst part of it is Coinbase doing their own tether now.
Evan: Well, yeah, there's a lot of competition coming up now. What were you just pointing out there? Connor?
Connor: I was just pointing out that there is some speculation over the Bahamas location and at the bottom in like, very faint text. It does say-
Evan: It's like the letterhead at the bottom of the letter.
Connor: Yeah, like the footer I guess is a P.O Box in the Bahamas which is I guess they're legitimate address that you would Google.
Ryan: This the end of tether up to the down.
Evan: Nobody's gonna be tethering up for a while. Another interesting thing I find is if this is coming from Taiwan or Taipei ... Same thing. The signature isn't even close it's like ... I don't know that signature is ridiculous I'm not even going to speculate on it. But I guess what I was gonna say is like wouldn't your signature be Chinese calligraphy and not like, it starts with a Latin character and then moves ... I don't know.
Ryan: It's not a signature. It's not even real.
Evan: Yeah, I don't know. That's ridiculous but that just came out today.
Ryan: Stop debating its fake.
Evan: We'll be one of the first people to cover that and that's very interesting.
Ryan: If you're involved in crypto, if you've worked in the industry I'm not talking of you just invest and yell at people on Twitter. If you're in the industry. You got to up the ante. You got to have better quality marketing and communication is everything.
Evan: That's just f***ing ridiculous. So Deltec shout out to you.
Ryan: No. Don't use my shout outs for them.
Evan: Alright, last last issue at hand here we've got a couple of minutes remaining. The world is ending Bitcoin is causing global warming. This coming from a huge I'm sure thorough scientific study coming out of the independent which is the most amazing news source ever. I fucking love mainstream media I eat up everything they say, it's so great when they tell me you know to be an NPC and basically drone on and just fucking do what everyone else does. So Bitcoin is going to cause global warming. Well the global temperature is going to go up two Celsius in two decades if we continue to use Bitcoin.
Ryan: There's a lot of things causing quote unquote global warming, okay. First thing causing global warming is eating meat, okay. All the methane in the air from the cows-
Evan: You're driving cars.
Ryan: You're driving cars, the pollution from commercial real estate buildings-
Evan: Using anything made of plastic.
Ryan: But here's my-
Evan: Flying on airplanes
Ryan: I know the real reason for global warming-
Evan: The hot air that comes out of my mouth.
Ryan: ... is not Bitcoin. It's quantum computers.
Evan: Oh, oh.
Ryan: If you look up quantum computers, they actually have to use or be in temperatures that are colder than I think something like 200 times the temperature in space. It's extremely freezing cold if you can even fathom, You can't fathom how cool this is. Right? So I believe that there's a quantum computer somewhere is developing somewhere in the earth. I think that's what the south or the North Pole are for. Ever looked up a flight to the South Pole, North Pole? It's over $20,000. And you can only go for a limited amount of time.
Evan: Who owns the South Pole?
Ryan: I don't want to talk about that because-
Evan: Wait, isn't one of the polls not actual ... There's not an actual landmass there's is the North Pole?
Ryan: Have you been there?
Evan: Well, no.
Ryan: So did you learn it from mainstream media?
Evan: Oh my God, my head just exploded dude.
Ryan: Plus, Pluto is not considered a planet anymore. Why not? It's because that's where they're building the quantum computers. It's so cold there that they can actually invest-
Evan: They're building the quantum computer on Pluto?
Ryan: If you like crypto [crosstalk 00:56:02] blockchain-
Evan: Is the earth flat around?
Ryan: ... the only thing that can render blockchain obsolete is quantum. So get into quantum physics. Shout out to quantum alert on Twitter.
Evan: Quantum alert at quantum alert. I love it. So, you know, we all remember Al Gore, Al Gore won the, what did he win? The f***ing-
Connor: He invented the internet-
Evan: Well, yeah, first he invented the internet. Then he was the greatest vice president ever for the greatest president of all time, whose wife was the greatest non president of all time. And then he called out the earth we were all going to die in what 2008? It was like an Inconvenient Truth. He won award after award. Just so brave and we're still here, we're still kicking, you know, 10 years later.
Ryan: Are we?
Connor: It might be in a simulation. Maybe it's Al Gore simulation that he invented when he invented the internet. And that's where we're really on Pluto in the quantum computer. You know.
Evan: Holy shit.
Ryan: We don't talk a lot of politics here.-
Evan: We're getting wacky.
Ryan: [crosstalk 00:57:00]roundtable. It's like immediately-
Evan: Hey this is not political. This is independent okay? It says it right there in the name of the news source they're not on the right or the left their independent dude.
Ryan: Well, I think obviously climate control or not I find that the Bitcoin ... Sorry. I really doubt that the computers that are the servers that have been used for Bitcoin is much worse than what Amazon has, what Facebook has-
Evan: That's the thing-
Ryan: I doubt it. I'm sorry.
Evan: They're just talking about the heat coming off of Bitcoin mining rigs.
Ryan: It's absolutely ridiculous.
Ryan: Absolutely ridiculous.
Evan: What are you talking about?
Connor: Yeah, I-
Ryan: Do you know how many servers Facebook uses?
Connor: I talked to my friend he used to do database stuff and he said it was just complete BS because there is like, I know we're gonna run [inaudible 00:57:50] time but-
Ryan: It's fine.
Evan: Pretty good. Go ahead.
Ryan: Go ahead. It's [inaudible 00:57:54] though.
Connor: No, he was talking about how like how all of these top data centers is all this like technology to basically make them not give off the minimal amount of heat. Like there's this one in Nevada that's like they got all these sensors and stuff where basically it's like, it's just complete BS. The technology is there to make sure that no real heat is even really coming off of these and if it is, it's being a goner. They're getting rid of it real quick.
Ryan: Yeah it's hot for you when you're in the room with these servers. Are you ever been to a mining rig? It's hot, it's hot as hell in there. But it's not so hot that is gonna melt the earth dog. I mean the polar bears would not end before Bitcoin ... Okay? Come on.
Evan: All right. Well, couple hot takes here on global warming, pun intended. I think that's about it for us on the roundtable this week. So Connor, Alexander, thank you for joining us, sir.
Connor: Yeah, it’s been good.
Evan: We look forward to hearing more about Algorand as we study it a little bit deeper. Ryan Dennis, always a pleasure to have you on.
Ryan: The pleasure is mine.
Evan: I think we're keeping the modern investor happy out there and we'll be back next week when Zach Quezada returns, or maybe not, maybe we'll just use our new host here.
Ryan: Your going to find out next week.
Evan: All right. Cheers, guys.
Ryan: Peace and love.