Written by Evan Schindler

From Pittsburgh with a background in payments, mobile applications and marketing technology. My future is in blockchain.
November 28 2018

Roundtable #25: Good TRON v Bad TRON (TRX), EOSBlack Scam?, Fastwin & Sylo

Q and Ev talk Good TRON v Bad TRON before catching up with co-founders of Sylo to talk about their mobile application.


ICO Alert disclaimer




Don't miss this week's episode of The Roundtable with co-hosts Zach Quezada and Evan Schindler holding casual crypto conversations on the latest news and the hottest topics.  


Q and Ev chat about the latest happenings in the crypto and blockchain space before catching up with the co-founders of Sylo to talk about their mobile application.

2:39 - Comments from Last Week
5:16 - Good Tron v. Bad Tron
15:15 - EOSblack
18:42 - FastWin
24:39 - Interview with Sylo Founders


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 [[ Transcript]]


Evan: The ICO Alert Round Table podcast is a casual discussion between members of the ICO Alert team. At no point is anything said in this podcast to be construed as legal, facts, financial or investment advice. What's going on out there, everybody out there that's listening out there, that's watching out there.

Q: What's up, what's up, what's up?

Evan: What's up?

Q: Round tablers.

Evan: Hey. Quilos Mortais over here.

Q: Oh. That's a good one. That's the only time I'm going to here that to be honest. That doesn't leave this room.

Evan: Quilos Mortais? It's going out. It's going out to all of our fans.

Q: But none of our fans are actually in this office. They'll hate us.

Evan: Well anyway. Welcome back. It's another episode of The Round Table. We are here. Fans can cheer. You had a comment you wanted to bring up from last week, is that right? Is that how we wanted to kick off this week's episode?

Q: You're going to put me on the spot like that? I have no idea.

Evan: Well, while you're looking it up, I can mention to our listeners and our viewers out there, if you like The Round Table, if you don't like The Round Table, if you'd like to compliment us, if you'd like to insult us, you can head on over to the YouTube or the soundcloud links and from there, you can join our telegram. We have about 30 members now?

Q: Yeah that's a real exclusive group. You need to know the password to get in. A.k.a. What's the password?

Evan: Is the passport, I don't know. There is no password. But, we're thinking about doing a big extravaganza at the end of the year with a Shitcoin grab bag giveaway. We're gonna ask everyone in the office that has Shitcoins, which is 100% of the people that work here. Tell them to put all of their coins into a grab bag, and then we'll do some kind of giveaway but you can only qualify for that give away-

Q: If you're in the telegram.

Evan: If you're in our telegram group. Be sure to join the telegram group. And you have to be somewhat participant like ...

Q: Give me the qualifications of participate like?

Evan: I don't know. I just made that last part up.

Q: A couple comments.

Evan: Yeah. Say what's up when you join.

Q: Don't be a spam bot.

Evan: Yeah and actually, I was thinking if people are sharing projects in our telegram should we just-

Q: Delete them?

Evan: Should we delete them or should we just share on their projects on the show?

Q: Share on the projects on the show.

Evan: Yeah, okay. Anyway, what's your comment from last week before we dive into this week's episode?

Q: Here we go, we got one that says why do they not talk about EOS?

Evan: Oh, my God!

Q: No-

Evan: Okay. If you're confused out there, which some people seem to be confused. This is the Roundtable. We talk about all of crypto, sometimes EOS is included in that. I like EOS In fact, I was at the EOS hackathon with the infamous Zack Gall and Peter Keay, and even Rob Finch was there. But, there's a show on our network completely dedicated to EOS. If you wanna learn about EOS, head on over to everything EOS. Those guys cover everything, top to bottom, Zack Gall is the in house EOS ninja.

Q: Zack is more like what I call him, because he's a fanatic.

Evan: Yeah, he's a fanatic. We don't have anything against EOS, trust me I like EOS. It's just, if you want EOS news, you're better of just go over to them. Because they're the ones that know all about it.

Q: Agreed, and if you see that guy, Rob Finch, tell him he owes me my EOS.

Evan: Oh, who forgot about that? That's coming huh?

Q: That is coming up, it's coming up December 31. The million dollar EOS bet, which actually turned out to be something-

Evan: Like $2300 right now?

Q: Something like that, still get that, that's coming up. If you see Rob, let me know I need to track him down, get out of Ohio have to go, knock on some doors. But anyways, I think we do have a special coming up with that million dollar US bet. But let me get into it. It was a good Roundtable, bad Roundtable this episode. Good to hear honest, no BS opinions on tokens, but bad that you gave each product so little time. It's too easy to dismiss complex products and tokens in two minutes. If you guys weren't aware, we have the guys from Alpine. Correct. On the last episode, and they talked a lot of token economics, so-

Evan: We went through 16 projects in maybe 35 minutes.

Q: Yeah. It's understandable, okay.

Evan: When you think about it, each project had roughly two minutes to be talked about.

Q: Yeah, we said it would be one, but we went over every single time.

Evan: Well, yeah, okay. But it's still ... It's tough like the ... And that was kind of the format we wanted, because we had so many suggestions coming in, another huge reason to be a part of our telegram group. And we hope we covered as many projects as we could, while still being informative. I know, what was the commenter's name? Was it Ralph? Sorry, Ralph. We couldn't go as in depth as you'd like. But, you can always start your own fucking podcast and go in depth about coins if you'd like so-

Q: Yeah, and we won't watch.

Evan: Yeah, but we will comment on the YouTube.

Q: Yeah, we'll make sure to talk a lot of shit here.

Evan: No, thanks for commenting, Ralph, and everyone else as always, we appreciate the feedback.

Q: And that was a good TRON bad TRON.

Evan: He did, he good TRON bad TRON. He's a fan of the show.

Q: Yeah.

Evan: And that's a perfect segue.

Q: There it is, we haven't done it that perfect ever so-

Evan: Wow, this week's episode good TRON bad TRON. Bring up that scoreboard boom. Alright folks good, TRON bad TRON. Last week I felt bad for TRON.

Q: Why?

Evan: The guys from Alpine shredded TRON to death. It was like usually we do three things about TRON and it's like, okay, we do one good, one bad and then there's one that's like in the middle and it can go either way. Last week we just had the guys from Alpine just do, just, "Hey, what's your opinion on TRON?" Instead of them just giving us one bad TRON, they gave us like 30 bad TRON in a row. So TRON bad TRON got annihilated last week.

Q: It was funny at first, and then as they kept kicking TRON were like, "Oh, this needs to stop, you need to stop this."

Evan: It was like that song from Black Hawk Down when, like, "Oh well yeah, it was just bad. I'd just say that."

Q: Just left that reference to die.

Evan: It was bad reference. It was more like when the animals are dying in the pet shelters. And in the [crosstalk 00:06:27].

Q: Yes exactly.

Evan: Alright, so anyway, this week's good TRON, bad TRON. We got three things coming up, big news out of TRON this week. And one of these, there's is actually kind of a two fold news thing that came out from Justin sun and from the TRONy foundation or whatever you want to call it, TRONy home base. TRON accelerator, and this is a $1 million US dollar blockchain contest. What they're doing is they're giving away a million dollars in prizes for people to develop TRON Dapps. The first place prize is $200,000 second and third I believe are both 100,000. And then there's eight sort of like consolidation prizes which are like best UI, best like a blockchain interoperability or whatever. You have to look at it I'll show the website here is a layover. They are going to have a what's called the TRON nitrogen summit, that's going to be held on January 17. And I believe that's where they're going to announce the winners. I'm not 100% sure how this works because if you win they give you free travel to the TRON summit. Maybe only you will know at that point.

Q: Yeah, it's not like everyone's waiting in anticipation. It's not like the Golden gloves.

Evan: Yeah.

Q: It's like everybody already knows okay, that makes sense.

Evan: Maybe only the teams know. I don't know they're gonna have to clarify that though.

Q: Okay. So is that a good TRON or bad TRON?

Evan: I think this is a good TRON, but there's like an asterisk here. Because TRON always pull some shit. I think the summit's cool, I was just at the EOS hackathon with those guys, that was great time it was cool to see a community of people building Dapps on EOS. And TRON I think if you look at transactions right now as far as Dapps go there in second place. It'll be cool to see people building on TRON, like this is a way to gain, to attract talent of people who are going to come in and do development. Work on the TRON protocol, but I heard a rumor that Kobe Bryant is going to be the keynote speaker at this January 17 thing in San Francisco.

Q: Bad TRON.

Evan: What the hell does Kobe Bryant know?

Q: It's when you went full ripple there.

Evan: They went full, never go full ripple.

Q: Never go full ripple.

Evan: What? Come on TRONs, so I think this is good TRON but, just come on let's just get past all the fluff and the bullshit and Kobe Bryant like-

Q: Yeah.

Evan: What the hell?

Q: What did you think about when we went to that future's conference Larry King being there? Was that a show fest or-

Evan: That was total bullshit. Future's was actually a great conference but that whole Larry King thing was just like what are you doing?

Q: He's like borderline senile now, to like he got up there had no idea what blockchain was. And like attempted to lead Donald that's got that little boy.

Evan: Here's the thing I could see if Larry King was a blockchain advocate for like free speech or something. Like in the age of outrage when free speech is being attacked. Larry King had a great interview, late night show where he would interview anyone, talk about uncomfortable shit. Now, he sees that social media is kind of like blocking that. And so he wants to be the champion of bringing back free speech. That would make sense to me. But his whole thing was like some green energy thing and-

Q: It was an actual project that he was there for.

Evan: Yeah, it wasn't great. Are we gonna call this good TRON or TRON accelerator?

Q: TRON accelerator good, Kobe bad-

Evan: Wow, so it's gonna be one, one?

Q: It's going to be one, one.

Evan: Wow, so we could end up in a tie this week, because we've got two more things going on here.

Q: Okay, spit them out.

Evan: The next one is, we've got a tweet here from Kevin Rook, or Rook sorry, if I mispronounced your name. Maybe you should have a better last name that's easier to pronounce.

Q: Like Schindler?

Evan: Yes, exactly. So he's got the volume on the top three Dapps for each protocol that's on dap radar right now. Right now EOS has 12,382 users with 1.4 million transaction volume. I'm guessing that's US dollar, judging by the thing. TRON a lot less users 2,578 users, but 5.5 million daily transaction volume, so more transaction volume than both EOS and Ethereum Dapps combined, but less users. Pretty close to Ethereum and users there, although I do expect TRONs gonna pick up. What is you what is your thoughts on that?

Q: I know people are using the EOS gambling Dapps and that's primarily where the users are coming from, and the volume. And I know that they're not betting a lot over a certain amount of period, so that makes sense there. I need to see that again, can you pull that back up? Yeah, so I don't know much about the TRON Dapps and to be honest, I'm gonna throw a wild card in here, you don't have to add this to the TRON count.

Evan: Because-

Q: Just being listed-

Evan: This is a wacky episode already.

Q: Just being listed on Dapp radar is good TRON, right?

Evan: Yeah, I think so, and I was gonna mention that is, I was just talking to you in the office. I might have mentioned this on a previous episode but there wasn't really any good place to find TRON Dapp traffic numbers, or user numbers or anything like that, transaction volume. And Dapp radar we use it all the time here. I think ICO Alert might come out with something that's going to be probably better than Dapp radar. But for now, Dapp radar they've set the bar pretty low but TRONs on there now. If you're a fan of Dapps, if you wanna see what's the hottest Dapp, what are the highest volume Dapps, head on over to Dapp radar. TRON is now on there along with Ethereum and EOS. It's a cool tool to use and see kind of what everyone else is doing in the space with their tokens.

Q: Yeah, definitely and the glaring fact there is that Ethereum has 450,000 daily transaction volume, that's just not a lot. I think, obviously the micro transaction aspect of like, both TRON and EOS play into the Dapps that are going on both right now. Whereas like, Ethereum is mostly used as, “Hey, I want to play a collectible game,” or, "I'm playing in a game that, like, only requires me to transact one or two times." I don't know how, I think it's dice to win, is the gambling Dapp on a theorem? I don't know like, why would you ever use that?

Evan: It takes like, five minutes for the dices to roll.

Q: I don't understand and then you're paying. I don't know what you're paying probably like, five, six cents a roll?

Evan: I don’t know.

Q: It doesn't make any sense, if you play that game, please let us know. I want to know why you actually play that because it doesn't make any sense.

Evan: And I've been actually playing a lot of TRON Dapps myself.

Q: I watched that.

Evan: I've been playing win token games. There's a win token out there, the tokens used to play some of the game. I think when the game first comes out, you can only use win token. Right now they just came out with roulette. They've got blackjack, which I like to play all the time, and then they had back right, which I learned to play because of TRON basically. They're coming out with a racing game soon. If you're TRON fan out there and you're not sure what Dapp to look into, I highly suggest you just go into win token games and should be listed on Dapp radar. Those are definitely some of the cooler ones out there. It's more of like a casino game that you're familiar with. It's not just like a dicy game where you just dice over and over and over. It's a little bit more of like a strategy I guess, even though it's all casino anyway.

Q: Yeah, definitely. Where is back right even played like primarily, as far as like geographical region. I can't imagine it's played in the US that often.

Evan: They have it at the local casino. I almost played it the other day, but then I realized that when you play it on the computer, it counts the cards up for you. And if I played it at the casino, I just be pissed because I wouldn't know if I won or lost, I would just wait for the dealer give me money. I don't know it that well. I guess we're going to say that good TRON has up to two to One hour? Is that what the counts are?

Q: Yes, definitely.

Evan: Okay, so this is the last one. This is TRON mascot giveaway. They did this a couple weeks ago. They've got these little mascots here I'm going to show you guys up on the screen. They're cute, they're cuddly, they kind of have like the ... Have you ever seen [sol 00:14:29]?

Q: Yeah, it looks like sol, it's scary as shit.

Evan: Pretty scary with the little loops on the face. I wanted one of these so that I could put it on the show, we always talk about TRON on the show. They said if you're a TRON advocate, or even someone that talks about TRON, you could get this free little mascot, and bring it around anywhere you wanted. And I was like, " Dude yeah I want one of those." I applied I sent them links to our videos.

Q: What?

Evan: Never heard back man-

Q: Wow. You're not as close as you think you are.

Evan: I'm saying bad TRON on this one.

Q: Bad TRON, I'm with you. They're trying to keep you down, I'll get on this board with you.

Evan: Unbelievable, so we got a tie then.

Q: Yeah.

Evan: Two, two. This weekend is in a tie, it's not good TRON or bad TRON, it's just-

Q: That might be two bad TRONs.

Evan: It's just tied TRONs.

Q: Yes tied TRONs.

Evan: Tied TRONs, alright. Any other news this week?

Q: I know we wanted to touch ... there was some conversation going on in the actual Roundtable chat about EOS black, and I can guess we could briefly talk about that-

Evan: Sure, you know about this things way more than I do. 'cause you're that Dapp guy.

Q: Yeah, I want you to call me that Dapp guy. I'm no longer Q.

Evan: Okay, he's not that Dapp guy.

Q: Please, please. But, EOS black, I think the problem was no one didn't know. Like you're saying that I know more about these things, I don't because no one knew what EOS black was. We were on EOS flair one day, right? Usually EOS flare and you're like, "Yo look at all the airdrops." Right? And we saw one that was incrementally larger than the others.

Evan: Right, I was like, "Holy shit, how do I just have all this money now?"

Q: Yeah, exactly. So we were like, what the heck is black, so you go to EOS black. So you go to EOSblack.one, or whatever the hell it was. And we could not figure out what it was to save your life. I think that was the feeling of like the community in general. And it's funny because it mirrors the ICO market because there were a ton of projects in 2017 that had this crazy valuation after ICO, didn't have a project or didn't even have a product is what I'm getting at. And for EOS black to be valued that much, and pretty much no one knows what the hell-

Evan: Yeah, we even asked the Alpine guys to do a token economics analysis of it. They couldn't even really get into it that much, 'cause they had no idea what it was.

Q: Exactly. Apparently they exit scammed, that's the rumor it was down like 85% on the day like we could go to the pay day.

Evan: Well, I wanna give a shout out to guy actually in our telegram group. Another benefit of joining the telegram group, you might just get your name shouted out on one of the most famous crypto podcasts out there. Andrew Quell at Andrew Quell on telegram. He said this. He said, "Buy wall for the last five months holding the price steady $400 million market cap with no doubt plan for their fork ecosystem. Most people should have seen that as a warning sign." I think that's interesting. I have no idea to confirm if there really was a big buy wall there or not. But, Andrew, if you're in the Roundtabler telegram group, you must be pretty smart guy doing something right. I'll take you at your word there, and it could be either that they were just artificially inflating the price or maybe they were using some sort of market maker, to try and study the price out, who knows I mean it's all speculation at this point. Never financial advice of course on the Roundtable, not that you'd want to take financial advice from guys like us anyway, but-

Q: Yeah, you'd be down big.

Evan: Yeah, you'd be living on the streets, it's amazing I still have a roof over my head. But it's interesting to see some analysis from people who have been watching it, and see that by wall disappear and see something that really no one could explain what the hell it was. And yet they airdropped and they just created money out of thin air which is cool, if you're holding EOS out there, but-

Q: It just from a macro level, it's crazy to see the similarities between the market in 2017 and before, but mostly 2017 with that crazy hype, where they were crazy valuations on projects that had no plans. Or had only plans. It's crazy to see that. The only other one I think fastwin.io, I don't know exactly. But it's just another EOS gambling Dapp. They were able to solve like an auto bet, system member. I showed you the auto bet system?

Evan: Yeah, it's interesting.

Q: Yeah. So you're able to make like, where you would have to kind of sign transactions one at a time, and then click and then go and do the whole process over again. What these guys were able to do was figure out the auto bet where I just clicked once whitelisted via scatter, and it just rolled.

Evan: Yeah, and it was a good way to mine the tokens with low risk bets, so that you could ... now you can stake them right for dividends is that how it work?

Q: Yeah, essentially, we've talked about this like over the past couple weeks in the growing ecosystem there. But yeah, all these Dapps are popular because they have that dividend through staking. The funniest part, though, and I was telling you the staking system is good because you're getting the dividends, but if something happens to that Dapp, or they exit scam or whatever, and you have the opportunity to sell it on exchange, well, if you're staking you don't. Because literally you cannot sell it on the exchange for 24 hours. It takes 24 hours down stake. That was a conversation I was having on the Roundtable telegram with a guy in the group chat. I was telling them listen, first one made the exchange announcement like three hours before they went live with the exchange. Which is kind of sketchy.

Evan: Was the exchange new decks?

Q: Yeah, it was new decks.

Evan: Okay.

Q: Literally three hours, and this was in the middle of the night. 'cause I've been waiting for fast want to be listed because I'm gonna buy the tokens while they're still somewhere near ICO. And literally, they made the announcement overnight for us, but Hong Kong time like afternoon. Three hours later, they were list on new decks. I obviously didn't get that chance. But not a lot of other people got to either. So didn't-

Evan: Did it get in on it?

Q: It least for the sales. I was able to buy when I woke up and I got over that initial anger. But the point I was making the guy in the chat was the people that want to sell their tokens but had staked. Because the instructions were to stake like-

Evan: You have to be staked to earned dividends, is that right?

Q: Yes. But so people were just all staked right? Like 80% of the tokens were staked, and no one knew when the exchange listing was coming. What I told this guy was, "Listen at this time or around this time, they're gonna be allowed to un-stake, they've been on new decks for about 24 hours. This un-stacking process takes about 24 hours. So get ready to see the people that are un-staking-."

Evan: Start selling.

Q: Start selling and this is exactly what happened.

Evan: Can you show it on new decks?

Q: I don't think you can. But again, not financial advice but it did come to pass, it went down like 18, 20%, from like all time high so-

Evan: Interesting though, but that could be a good time to buy more and stake them, because of the dividends?

Q: Yeah, I like first when I think that dice first when an EOS bet are like the three flagships right now.

Evan: I like how we've turned into, you're the EOS Dapp guy, and I'm the TRON Dapp guy, and we like both sit across from each other at work, like playing the Dapps.

Q: Just like playing Baker Hart? Just mining away.

Evan: So we had a couple of guests on this episode. The guys from Silo, co-founders Dorian and Ben, they joined us from New Zealand. So shout out to all of our fans down under and shout out to Mike Hillier. We always talk about you. I know Joe [Warjito 00:25:14] who is in Australia or maybe on his way back from Australia. He showed me a receipt, he sent me a picture of a receipt we did ship you your care package. It's on the way, let us know in the comments. If you get it if you don't get it, if it sucks, whatever. And that's about it.

Q: Yeah, that's it, man. That's great. Again, Mike, you've been, you know, listening to this podcast for a while. So I'm glad we were able to, you know, get you something we always like to, reward our, listeners and yeah, that are on the Roundtable. And I love the discussions that are happening in the chat. Now. That's not something that was happening before.

Evan: Right. And it gives us like content to play on. I know, we don't want to just make up bullshit to talk about and it's boring for you guys. So if you're a fan, if you want to hear us talk about something join the telegram as long as you're not sharing some crazy stupid ICO, we're willing to come and talk about it. And the conversation we had with the Silo guys, just before we move on to the interview, I thought it was really good. They're building a Dapp. That's very similar to a WeChat where it's WeChat started as a messaging app. And then very quickly turned into, like your everyday utility.

Evan: If you're in China, you can do everything through WeChat. You can pay for food, you can send money to your friends, you can, order an Uber or it's not called Uber in China, you can go around and unlock bikes. It's like a full utility thing. What they're trying to do is really bring a lot of these different utilities into decentralized version of that. And one of the coolest things that we talked about was a little sticker marketplace that they're working on. I know the telegram group, I like to post gifs and stickers. And if you're an artist, and you've got some cool stickers to make, maybe you're some Japanese person online or Korean person online.

Q: I have been in those Asian telegram groups and I had no idea why there were so many stickers posted.

Evan: That's it, man. That's big. So line L-I-N-E is a huge chat app for Japan and for Korea, correct me if I'm wrong. WeChat huge for China. And stickers is like a massive thing. And you can actually have free ones and then, you pay for the cooler ones. So people collect them and-

Q: Like trading cards.

Evan: Exactly. So with Silo, you can kind of design your own and make them scarce and non fungible and all that fun stuff. I guess without further ado, we'll head on over and talk to the guys from Sylo. Alright, without further ado, we have Dorian and Ben on the line. These guys are from Sylo, the mobile app, you can go and get it in the app store right now. Dorian and Ben, how are you guys?

Ben: Yeah, really well. Nice to see you.

Dorian: Thanks for having us.

Q: Where are you guys calling from? Where are we talking to you from?

Dorian: We're down in Auckland, Southern New Zealand.

Evan: Nice. Other side of the planet?

Q: Yeah, we've got a staff member there actually. He's Joe Warjito one of our data analyst, is in I don't know what city, but he's definitely in Australia.

Evan: He's in Australia. These guys are in New Zealand. Get your geography right down there, man.

Evan: It's all the same to us ignorant Americans anyway. It's either America or Non-America.

Q: Yeah, exactly.

Evan: Hey guys? We're happy to have you on the show. We wanted to dive into the Sylo app a little bit, dive into, your guys background I think maybe it'd be appropriate to ask you guys to lead things off. Why are you guys in the crypto space to begin with? How did you guys get involved in this? Are you Bitcoin guys since the beginning? Or were you caught in the Big Bear or the big bull run of 2018? Or, what, what's your story? How did you get here today?

Dorian: We've probably got a slightly different story from a lot of the companies you talk to in this space. I mean, if I rewind a little bit, we've been building decentralized communication software for about half a decade now. Since Well, before, blockchain was a hype word, since we had this crypto, boom, everything we were founded on the vision of enabling people to communicate online without a middleman. Now, without the centralized server collecting all your data, embedding your privacy, we embarked on a mission to enable people to connect directly device to device. Essentially, as coaches like and to an offline scenario. When you're offline, you can sit in the room, have a conversation with someone, and you know, these not a person here with a recording device. And that's essentially what's happening with 99% of the services are used these days. We use a combination of decentralized technologies, not just blockchain by blockchain and crypto are key pieces of what we're working on to bring a solution to market with a way of focus on letting people do what they do online without the downs sides that come from centralized architecture.

Evan: I know you talked a little bit about it there, but what are some of the downsides, you know, Centralized messaging in I know, if you could get into the data aspect of the platform as well, that would be great.

Dorian: Yes, I mean, it's the core component is we've got these amazing capabilities right now, you can video call someone on the other side of the planet. But the issue is how these services, are created the role based on treating the customers the product, not the customer, and then, they're going to sit in the middle of the transaction, they facilitate the communications, but they also hold a record of all those communications. Whether or not they're providing an extra layer of security or encryption to those these still the fact that information is being held on a third party location, which price and incentive for that service provider to maybe change the terms or use that information in some capacity to monetize it also create a pot of gold for hackers on a [inaudible 00:28:03] if I can get in here, I get a million users information. And by sheer fact of decentralizing this, you remove the incentive of exploiting the data because the company doesn't have that.

Dorian: You remove their reward to an attacker and because the information sitting with each individual user, not in one centralized database, and is also efficiencies that come with decentralized technologies, not having to move them through a third party locations or service. There's a number of benefits to it. In the end of the day, we got these supercomputers in our pockets. We lost will leverage the capabilities now, we don't have to rely on the cloud to do some of these things that we using these applications for.

Evan: It's quite an amazing concept, especially for me, you guys are a lot smarter than me when it comes to this kind of stuff. I'm just a layman, I just like to hear about the projects and uncover them a little bit. I've always known messaging apps to have a central database, somewhere where all these, chat logs are stored. We grew up in America, on AOL, America Online. I'm sure Q has some conversations from back in the day that he's probably embarrassed about. And they're all stored on chat logs, somewhere that will eventually be uncovered and flown out there. And, it's a big fear that Q has about these chats that he had when he was a teenager.

Q: Yeah, my 14 year old ex girlfriend would be very upset about that.

Evan: So how does it work? Then, if you could give it to me in layman's terms, like the messages aren't stored on a server anywhere? They're just peer to peer specifically? Or how does it work exactly?

Ben: We utilize both. The main difference is that all messages aren't stored on one server controlled by one entity. With a decentralized network, you can incentivize a whole range of different parties to provide storage resources to the network. And then you set it up in a trustless ways. So you don't have to trust those nodes. And the various sectors can't, find out more than what they should be able to find out if they choose to come and provide their nodes to the network. So yeah, peer to peer, definitely, you do store content on your device, because it's your device and you want to, you want to have control and ownership of that data. But then obviously, you need that data, information, all that data backed up by other people for you. But the difference is, it's not one company, one company isn't responsible for that. We facilitate that as Silo in code. But really, it's a whole range of different people and contributing to the network for you, the user.

Q: Me and Evan, we're talking, that's like the first time I ever called Evan. Me and Evan were talking before the podcast and we were kind of joking is, it's funny, whenever Facebook or these big companies come out, and they have like, a leak of your data, or they maybe not even leak, they're selling the data for profit without your consent or without, you get any monetary benefit. People get all up in arms, but it's over the next week, what's it gonna take for, the general public to actually get on board with, "Hey, it's my data, I need to be in control of this?"

Dorian: Really good question. And that's something we've been focusing on for a long time. And it comes down to putting an app in people's hands that is comparable to these mainstream services without the downsides. When we first launched our project out, it was very much, decentralized technologies, people are going to use it because it's decentralized. But it's just simply not the case. You've got people, they'll look it up in arms for a period of time, they'll cool down, and they'll go back to using the Facebook Messenger.

Dorian: What we need to do is put an application in the hand that I can sit side by side with the other apps they're using and go will the functionalities, the same user experience is just as good as for beta. I can use this one and be exported, or I can use this one in not be. That doesn't exist in the market yet, you've got some really cool niche technologies coming out that solve certain issues. But what we don't have the mainstream adoptable applications that mimic those functionalities that people need in the day to day and that's what we're really focusing on and that's what we were pushing into market.

Dorian: With our next release that's coming out, and Q1 next year, you're gonna see some pretty it that features and stuff that you can sit there and go, "Oh, yeah" I can realistically see people using this instead of a WeChat or alive or WhatsApp genuinely, because they're not having to sacrifice. I think that's the key, you know, people aren't going to compromise if you want mainstream to use these applications that respect their privacy, I mean, the user rights, they have to be able to do it without having to compromise on the features, because people want what they want.

Evan: I think it's going to be an uphill battle. But there's a ton of other companies out there in the blockchain space, that are all kind of moving towards that so hopefully collectively as a community and as people innovate, we're going to see a push away from a lot of these centralized people that are exploiting our data, exploiting our communication. And my wife is actually from China, and I have a bunch of friends in China, colleagues and business partners from China. I use we chat all the time. When I was checking out your app Sylo, and checking out the MVP in the videos, it felt very familiar like a WeChat type of application.

Evan: But with WeChat, as you guys know, I'm sure that's got to be, one of the most sTRONgly monitored, conversational apps out there. It's literally the centralized Chinese government looking at what you're saying, and whether you're in China, or whether you're out of China, some [waybow 00:33:43]or 10 Center, I don't even remember who who owns it. I'm sure you guys know who owns it, they're the ones that they can monitor, even what people outside China are saying, which is a huge infringement on privacy. There's definitely a need in the market for these things.

Evan: But like you said, it's gonna be a while till, we start to come around. Part of the reason why I use we chat is because, like I said, all my friends that are in Asia are on it. I guess it's kind of a good segue to my next question for you guys, which is, what is your plan going to be moving forward for user adoption and to get, that kind of that first batch of users who can really grow the app out from the beginning?

Ben: I think you started this question off really well, by referring to WeChat. WeChat does some things really, really well, I'm sure. As you say, it's definitely not confidential, and you're feeding into that big data engine that is the Chinese government, but WeChat has done a fantastic job of bringing a whole range of different services together seamlessly. And that's one of the big things that we've been focusing on.

Ben: For us, it's about creating an ecosystem of businesses, which are all decentralized collaborating around a single user. And from within the Sylo application, you can access all of that these different services provided by a whole range of different companies. To your question about how we see users adopting Silo, obviously, it's about getting something that actually works to the believers. That's something that we firmly believe hasn't happened yet, people that understand cryptocurrency understand the benefits of blockchain and decentralization. We wanna show them an application that isn't in dial up stage, which most blockchain applications are [crosstalk 00:35:35]

Q: I like a description.

Ben: And then from there, it's about growing, out those extra features and functionalities provided by other businesses to create that WeChat type experience, which is likely to be, really, really appealing to a mainstream.

Dorian: The other key piece as well is it's not about us popping up as one company and trying to grow from grass roots. The key thing in the space is that with decentralized technologies, it's four times as hard to do the same thing you could do with centralized technologies. And you're not going to have one company pop up and take over the world and bring the decentralized App Store to market. We're already collaborating with over a dozen different companies in the space from people working in a[inaudible 00:36:20] decentralized Uber to decentralize slack.

Dorian: We've got a whole range of different companies that are now collaborating with us, and integrating our experts. And we're integrating the aspects to build a really reach feature set. It's going to lead us bring a feature reach experience to market a lot quicker than we could do if we're trying to build this all from grassroots. There's also a whole range of initiatives with those companies and technologies, the integrating and the partnerships they working on for us to pick up big chunks of users in different segments. With our existing app we built out from the ground, use by user. And now what we're going to look to do is dip into those poles and to pick up people that really have a genuine need for the value that we're gonna provide through the experience.

Q: Let's get into these features that you're talking about. 'cause I know Evan was looking at the app, I was looking at the app and I understand that is it out completely is it in alpha, currently, what is the current status of the app?

Dorian: The app that you will probably using as one on the app store right now. That's our confidential communication. And that's not the crypto enabled version. The crypto enabled version is in closed out for at the moment, you want to get your hands on that you have to kind of send us a request so we can open up the gates but the public beta is coming out in Q1 next year. That'll be one I don't know, if you've seen some of the conferences we've been speaking at. And we've been doing some demos of that one. And that's, that's communications with crypto, wallet integration, and a few other bits and pieces within the experience. So think about you think about very much like a WeChat but fully decentralized in terms of the architecture and the features here. We're working with a partner at the moment as well to enable spending of crypto in the real world as well. There's a pilot rolling out in New Zealand next year, which lets you actually spend your ERC 20 tokens and various retailers around the country.

Dorian: This is going to be a slower rollout because of regulation. And you need to go through the traditional finance banking well, but it's some really cool functionality, 'cause what we're going to focus on is leading people with crypto do stuff with that crypto, 'cause at the moment, what you do you kind of you [inaudible 00:38:31], you get some tokens, you buy some crypto, it's very limited in terms of what you can do with that. I think if we can bridge the gap between usability and people that are holding those assets, we should start being at a lot more adoption.

Q: Got it. Just getting into the token really quick, what is the Silo token used for within the Silo economy essentially?

Ben: To put really simply, and Silo tokens are your ticket to being able to communicate and store staff, confidentially and in a decentralized way. You'll hold Sylos as a user or you might hold sylos as a business to unlock that functionality for either your customers, or your users or you yourself.

Evan: Okay, that makes sense. Then just wanted to talk about some of these features a little bit more that you guys are talking about, I know that you said that they're coming out 2019, one of them that really caught my eye was the stickers and you had like a sticker market where I didn't have enough time to look into it. So correct me if I'm wrong, are people actually able to design and create their own stickers and then like sell them to other peers on the marketplace?

Q: I didn't realize you are a sticker enthusiast [crosstalk 00:39:49]

Ben: That's a way of finding out new things all the time.

Dorian: This is being quite an interesting one for us. So we went to focused on this until we went over to Japan earlier in the year. We presented at Japan blockchain conference in June, and we had some concepts of the stick of the non-fungible stick a marketplace and it just they were all over and we started looking in and we really realized the opportunity and the demand and the interest in this. I think crypto kitties, but we can apply it in terms of a whole range of different digital assets that starting with a stick a marketplace.

Dorian: They'll be unique on the blockchain, digital assets that people can create correct reality around the room and interact and tribe with him is it functionality within the app. It's just really an extension on I mean, if you're using telegram at the moment how you'd like stickers at the moment. That kind of creates a marketplace around that, which is quite hard, particularly through either at the moment.

Ben: Yeah, so there's the marketplace aspect. But there's also different revenue models that we can put in place around stickers. If you're a sticker creator, or someone is feeling creative, you can create a sticker, you could decide how many of those stickers you want to exist, they can be stored on users wallets, just like, you know, just like tokens can be you need to own that sticker for you to be able to use it in your chat feeds. But then, of course, when it's traded, the sticker creator might get a cut of that if they want to configure that aspects each time it is traded. It's a way of creating a recurring revenue streams for creatives as well, which we think is quite cool content.

Evan: Yeah, that was part of the reason why I brought it up is because I've used a line and WeChat. And it's like every other three messages on there, some unique sticker and back when I was courting my wife, she was always trying to send me the newest stickers, and I had to keep up with it and pay for them even to impress her.

Q: So that's, that's what's going on in those telegram chats that are Asian when they have all the stickers?

Evan: Well, I don't know about in telegram. I think most of the stickers are free. But in WeChat, there's actually you they make you pay for some of them. There's free packages and there's premium packages. I I like this idea a lot. I think it's really unique thing to actually allow people to design their own stickers and to earn dividends are not dividends, but earn, sales proceeds off the trade after you've already sold it out into the marketplace and to create a scarcity of supply. That's a really cool concept. And that's when I brought it up. But another one of the cool features we wanted to talk about was, I saw that you guys were looking to implement QR pay. Can you speak to that a little bit? How far along are you with that? I know that's another huge endeavor on top of what you've already built.

Ben: Yes. We have built that. That is definitely something that is happening. We've partnered with a company called Centra Pay to help us connect with real world merchants. Then it's about facilitating the exchange in the background so that the merchant gets the token or the currency that they want to receive. But that's part of our big strategy to make crypto real. Without crypto assets being able to be used to buy actual goods and services, they just, speculating or they're just a speculation. But yeah, we've built out a technology that's part of what it is that we're demoing around the world at the moment. And that is the pilot that Dorian alluded to earlier.

Evan: Did you guys get a lot of your inspiration for this from using WeChat 'cause I've been in China a few times and in China, not to boast about how awesome WeChat is, obviously we want the decentralized versions to eventually take over. But in China, it's almost everything's done from your messaging, to your hailing a taxi, to you're paying for things to even, you know, renting a bicycle on the street, it can all be done through one or two apps the WeChat or the Alley Pay app. Is that kind of where you guys are drawing inspiration from? Is that use case? And have you been in Asia to use those apps before to kind of know what's good for the consumer? What's bad for the consumer?

Dorian: Yeah, absolutely, we had a good play around with those applications, we're spending a ton of deals from here as well. We are, in a nutshell, looking to provide us a very, very similar experience. And it's coming more from the reality that people have a lot of expectation of convenience. Companies applications, you know, to pull people away into a new experience, we're going to provide need to provide a pretty rich feature set. And that involves providing a whole range of functionality.

Dorian: As I say that's where our collaboration is coming. The ones we're working on at the moment is not about building these out ourselves but integrating in like a book with strong booking service wide sharing service, it's rolling out New Zealand and a few other services that build out that functionality see from the get go, that let people actually have a real value from picking up this application, not just communication. Straight away, they get those pieces and, and as those deals come through, as those other projects reach milestones, will be integrating them and offering them to users. But we're gonna start with a basic feature set that we think is bought by people to consider cutting up and using as an alternative to somebody actually currently using.

Q: So kind of twofold question [crosstalk 00:45:26] go ahead, go ahead.

Ben: I was just gonna say it's not like we went out or we saw WeChat and, built it. It's been very organic process. We started out in the messaging space and through our collaborations, as yeah, WeChat has been the easiest way of us kind of describing what it is that Silo is becoming.

Q: Just a quick twofold question. I know we were touching on China a little bit here. But one of the places we haven't been able to get to as far as conferences and kind of just seen the like blockchain industry evolving in Asia, we haven't been able to see that first hand. And you guys said you were at these conferences. Two questions, can you give our users kind of a quick view into what you saw when you went over there? And then also, is that a user base that you're targeting specifically for this app?

Dorian: Yeah, good question. I it's actually very spread like so we've been traveling a lot. We've been to Japan, we've been to Korea, we've been to Malaysia as well as the West. What we're finding is that every market is completely different. When we were in Japan, earlier this year, it was almost like frenzy level in terms of their interest and all things crypto and blockchain like people were super excited about it. And the technology operating in that spice was getting the support and co-backing. Korea and we were actually going later this week, again, we're going to be speaking in another conference as a lot more hard nosed.

Dorian: When you go there, they're really looking at this technology with scrutiny going up people are promising the will where are the real business applications, where are the app so I can download. Then in Malaysia was somewhere in between, a contrast that people excited about and enthused about the technology to people that will operating businesses and looking how they can leverage the benefits of the takes. The temperaments been very, very different in every region.

Dorian: We've had a lot of user interest in the application right throughout Asia at the moment as well. China is a different kettle of fish. The proposition for the waste of privacy and on your data and go back and control that it's just not an option for China, because obviously, they've got the control. We're actually working with a couple of specific business parties to find the best entry into the market and turns about technology. And 'cause these is a lot more efficiency you can get out of this to realize take as well for business application. And so we're looking at approaching it from that angle in terms of marketing treat via whereas obviously, the western proposition is more what we've been touching on, the rest of this conversation.

Evan: Yeah, it sounds amazing. I think you guys are in a good spot as Q touched on, Asia has been a kind of a hotbed recently when the West has been cool. And often, the whole market as of late, I'm sure you guys are well aware, has been kind of taken a dive lately. And it's kind of a question we ask everybody that comes on the show, just as a way to sort of wrap up, what do you guys see going on with the market right now? What's your sentiment? And then what do you predict for 2019, obviously, no investment advice or financial advice here, but just to get your perspective on things, where do you think we're going with the whole blockchain space moving forward?

Dorian: In all honesty, what's happened this year has been a good thing. 2017 was [inaudible 00:48:41], 2018 is the year of reality. In 2019 is going to be the year delivery, people want to see all this resource that's been dumped into the space materializing and apps and products that they can get the hands on and get real value from, like the hearts being scraped off this year, what you've gotten left is the companies that are really, you're not going to have any more pop up, pop up ICO startups coming out, where it's going to be the companies that have real teams, real ability to deliver and the ones that are gonna, what you're going to see next year is people actually putting technology into the market that has genuine value. And hopefully, on the back of that, we start to see some pickup and some faith into ... in leveling out of where the real value of the market should be.

Ben: Just add to that, what I can, what I can see happening is, and tokens will start to be used for what they were designed for. And that's the thing that's been lacking in the market this year, There's hundreds of tokens, hundreds of coins that have been created that have a use case, but because the technology is not there yet, all of the value is literally startling speculative. The value is a perceived future value, as opposed to, organic demand, which has been created because people are requiring those tokens to do the thing that the tokens have been designed for. I think that'll be the big shift. And I think that'll be the big shift that we see next year.

Q: Yeah, I think we in the office kind of classified 2019 is the year of the Dapp. I love the I love the year of delivery, though I do like that a lot. One last thing before you know really close the show out here is obviously you guys have a token sale would love to hear more information about that how our users could get involved and just more on that.

Dorian: Yeah, obviously we restrict certain markets so these a level of promotion and we can encounter you here I'm but we have a sale on all information you can find through our website at Sillo.io people that can participate, you'll find out when you go through the KYC process and we've got certain regions that are restricted certain regions that are allowed, Yeah.

Evan: All right.

Ben: Check it out. [crosstalk 00:51:02.

Evan: Well, Ben and Dorian from New Zealand. The app is Sylo, you can find the alpha is it the alpha you gonna call it now the one on the on the App Store?

Dorian: The one on the App Store is our existing application if you want the alpha jump on our website, and it just apply and will give you access and then the full public beta will be released in Q1.

Evan: There it is. Dorian said it better than I could have. Guys we appreciate you coming on the Roundtable. And I guess that's it. We're gonna sign off here.

Q: Yeah. Thanks guys.

Ben: [crosstalk 00:51:32] Thanks very much.

Q: Cheers.


Topics: Cryptocurrency, Podcast, Eos, Roundtable, Podcasting, TRON