Written by Evan Schindler

From Pittsburgh with a background in payments, mobile applications and marketing technology. My future is in blockchain.
November 15 2018

Roundtable #23: Token Economics, NewDex EOS Pairs & Monero

Josh Bryant (VP of Data Management) join Q and Ev for the roundtable chat this week. 

ICO Alert disclaimer






Don't miss this week's episode of The Roundtable with co-hosts Zach Quezada and Evan Schindler holding casual crypto conversations on the latest news and the hottest topics.  

Join The Roundtable Telegram group below to suggest which cryptocurrency you'd like to hear about from the token economics experts over at Alpine & Consensys on next week's Roundtable.


1:13 - Josh Bryant Introduction
7:13 - Gambling dApps
16:36 - YouTubers Hating on Everything EOS Halloween?
17:15 - NewDex EOS Pairs
26:50 - Ev Learns Econ101
29:59 - Teaching Finance to The Next Generation
38:38 - Digital Assets on Fortnite
41:20 - Setting Up Mining Rigs at Home
43:23 - Monero and Privacy

Subscribe for instant podcast notifications




Evan: The ICO Alert Roundtable podcast is a casual discussion between members of the ICO Alert team. At no point is anything said in this podcast to be construed as legal, tax, financial or investment advice.

Q: For the sake of transparency, members of this week's podcast own the following coins, Bitcoin, Ethereum, EOS, TRON, Monero, Zcash, dApp, dice, black, poker, Karma and Ethereum Classic.

Evan: So now we are actually in the building, boom, we always start out by saying boom.

Josh Bryant: Hey guys, what's up?

Evan: How's it going? [inaudible 00:00:39] Who's this guy?

Q: Josh.

Josh Bryant: Hey, I'm on the show.

Evan: He's been asking to get on the show since 1998.

Josh Bryant: I have been a long time fan, and here I am.

Q: Josh is our first number one fan, I think.

Josh Bryant: I am. Listen every week. I like the jokes, it's entertaining, it's informative.

Evan: Oh, man.

Josh Bryant: It's the whole package.

Evan: It's good. It's good for people that just want to scratch the surface and not get too crazy technical. You think so?

Josh Bryant: It's a good show. It's why I want to be on it.

Q: Thanks Josh.

Evan: Wow, Josh, you're such a good guy. So tell the folks out there what you do in ICO Alert here.

Josh Bryant: Hey everybody. I am the VP of data management at ICO Alert. So our whole data team, data services, we do all the work behind the scenes and then serve out data to our customers on ICOs. We have the biggest database in the business, and all the data you'll ever need on ICOs, ICO Alert.

Q: Boom. So for those of you that don't know we're in beautiful Pittsburgh, we're on the North Shore of Pittsburgh. We got a nice little cozy office here and Josh, his team is on the other side of the office from me and Evan. We don't really know what actually goes down on that side of the office.

Evan: We don't know.

Josh Bryant: We don't talk much.

Q: Yeah, we don't.

Evan: Yeah.

Q: We exchange glances.

Evan: I have no idea what they do.

Q: Yeah, me neither. So what do you guys do?

Josh Bryant: Well, all those ICOs that are on our webpage, guess who puts them in there, we do.

Q: I thought they just appear.

Evan: [crosstalk 00:02:00].

Q: Showed up, right?

Josh Bryant: Yeah, they come in, and we enter them and filter out the bad ones. Make sure that everything gets vetted, that goes on to our homepage. We'll go through and go to the actual ICO websites and get information on them. And then we turn around and we have our data services too, that we have available. So all that behind the scenes work that makes our website look so beautiful-

Evan: Makes things tech, it's this guy right here. Josh Bryant joining us on The Roundtable this week. Guys, we've got maybe an abbreviated show for you. We say that almost every week, and then it always ends up being an hour long. But I do want to make a big announcement. Next week we're going to have a couple guys on the show, Greg Rocco and Jacob Blish, they are from the Alpine team at Consensys. They are token economic geniuses. So if you have a specific project that you're interested in, maybe you're a TRON fan. Maybe you've been watching good TRON, bad TRON, maybe you're an EOS fan, you've come over from Everything EOS, maybe you have some weird altcoin that is just hitting the market, and you're looking to invest. Or maybe you already invested in something like that. These guys are going to come on the show, we're going to run them through a speed round, we're going to go over the token economics of every project that we can think of.

Evan: So we're going to do a quick 20 coin, one minute explanation from these guys. They're both experts. Like I said, they work for Consensys, they work for Alpine. These guys get quoted, their research is quoted in some of the top papers, some of the top reports that come out about different tokens out there. So next week, there's only one way, if you are a viewer of The Roundtable, if you're a fan of The Roundtable, there's only one way to request a token that you'd like to hear these token economics guys talk about on the show. Q can you tell the folks at home how they can participate in next week's episode?

Q: Yeah, so you're going to go to the description in SoundCloud or YouTube and find it there. It's going to be a telegram link, you're going to click that telegram link, it's going to take you to a window, and it's going to ask you to join the group. Join the group, and you'll get to go there, you'll be able to ask these guys about the token economics of a certain coin, and that'll be it. That's the process.

Evan: Yeah, and I think token economics I mean, I think we should talk about this a little bit on The Roundtable. It's something that's often overlooked. A lot of these projects come out and people look into ... Obviously everybody, the first thing they want to know is the price, "What's the price?" And then maybe they look a little bit into the supply but as far as the economics, that's about as far as they go. And then from there you talk about the team, you talk about the tech. But if you've got the best tech in the world and the greatest team since the 1985 bears or whatever, it doesn't matter, if your economics suck, you're going to get wrecked when it actually hits the market and that stuff starts to filter in with oversupplied or however it works out.

Josh Bryant: Yeah, there's a lot of information out there on these ICO websites that have to be collected. So all this data is not on the chain, you can't write some code and go out and go get it. It's got to be collected. I'm really interested to hear what these guys have to say because we collect a lot of this data, this off chain data for token economics, and it'd be great to have them in here and get their expertise.

Evan: So Josh if there was one coin you would want these guys, you'd want to see them cover, what would be a coin that maybe you're interested in that you want to see these guys talk about the token economic structure of?

Josh Bryant: Well off the top my head, there's one that we're going to talk about, distributed exchanges today or DEX, and one of them, the coin that's associated with IDEX, which has the largest volume right now, I think it's got over 6,000,000 in volume in the last week. Their coin's called Aurora.

Q: Aurora coin.

Josh Bryant: Yeah.

Q: Yeah.

Josh Bryant: And I looked at it quickly, and I saw that there's a total supply of I'm going to say a billion or maybe one and a half billion, but only 140,000 in circulation.

Evan: Really?

Josh Bryant: Or something like that, or maybe 140,000,000 in circulation.

Evan: Okay.

Josh Bryant: So 140,000,000 in circulation versus one or one and a half billion that are going to be created, how's that gonna affect the token price in some way?

Evan: Right.

Josh Bryant: Because there's a lot of good projects out there. But just because it's a good project doesn't mean that token is a necessarily good investment. So that's what I want to hear from them, is what is a good distribution of coins initially? How does it get distributed to the team? And you got to think about it, if you were to invest in this token, are there budget tokens that are just being held on to by the team that over time are going to dilute the value? Right? Of your investment time.

Evan: Yeah, it's interesting. So again, next week, we're bringing these guys on from Alpine, we're going to do a speed round, we're going to run through every token we can think of. These guys are experts, we're going to test their grit on the subject. And again, hit the telegram up, The Roundtable telegram description, in the YouTube description click on that link comment into the telegram. Let us know what coins you want to see these guys cover and we'll have some good information from guys that are smarter than me at least.

Q: Yeah, absolutely. That's me too.

Evan: To talk about this stuff. So let's let's get into a little bit of the show here. Like I said maybe an abbreviated show, maybe not. We do have Josh on, he's been one of the best fans here, and he's brought up a couple of subjects that he wants to cover himself, but I think Q, this is you talking about here the rise of gambling dApps.

Q: Yeah, over the past, I would say two or three months we've been seeing the introduction of all of these dApps coming to maturity, right? So you go to these dApp listing sites, something that we're looking to do actually at ICO Alert very soon. But we're looking at dApp radar and we're looking at dApp.com and we're looking at the actual number of users increase exponentially over the course of the last two or three months. So the gambling dApps are interesting because they're ... And we've kind of debated on the show, but the reason for gambling dApps being the first use case at least on EOS, I think 14 out of the top 20 dApps on EOS as far as users are concerned, are gambling dApps. Obviously that's because it's fee list on these microtransactions, I think that's a really good use case, but also the token economics of their actual token on these gambling dApps, because people are able to stake tokens to receive maybe EOS or receive more of these tokens.

Evan: Right.

Q: So it's an interesting ecosystem. I think most people play the gambling dApps because of the staking system. So let me give you a good example. I believe it's EOS bet in the beginning, when that only 5% of tokens are minted, you can get if you Bet one EOS, you get one dice or one, whatever the token is called. As more get minted and more people play, that ratio obviously goes down. So I think they are about 50% minted right now, and that's about 16 EOS for every one of these poker tokens.

Evan: Right.

Q: I believe it's EOS poker, that's what it was called. So I'm wondering how that affects the adoption of certain dApps, right? Because if you're not getting that huge amount of poker per EOS dApp, and even when it gets mounted to 100% of the token what's going to happen with these dApps? I think that you can see that possibly, that dApp specifically going away.

Josh Bryant: Yeah. I tried out one of those games, one of those EOS gambling games, and it was really addictive and super easy to play. Right? You could roll really quickly. At one point, though, I don't understand the whole staking piece of it as much, but at the top there's this little thing, it's a CPU or RAM, and it's like 100% and I couldn't play anymore, right? So I had to do something and then they want to lend me a little bit to keep playing, but there's just something there I didn't quite understand. Then I came back a couple days later, and I could play again. So I played a few rounds and lost my two or three EOS, that was my experience in it, but it was fun.

Evan: Yeah.

Josh Bryant: I mean, I could see those games picking up in popularity.

Evan: It can definitely be a quick way to lose money. I've definitely lost a couple EOS.

Q: I know you were concerned with specifically the open source nature, you didn't know playing the game whether it was actually provably fair, that's the right-

Evan: Is there any difference between playing some of these gambling games? And it's not just EOS, there's TRON going on now. A shout out to all our TRON fans since we have a contingent there. And there's always been Ethereum going on with these gambling games, but some of them aren't open source. So how can you prove that this is any more fair, and one of the biggest ones we talked about was the EOS, the poker game, oh not the poker, I'm sorry, the blackjack game.

Q: Yeah.

Evan: I ended up standing on a 16 or 15 or something. And the next card that came would have gave me 21, but it went to the dealer and I asked, I was like, "Wait, would that have been my card?" And then we were both like, "Well, we don't know." Would that card have actually gone to me, or is it randomly selecting throughout what's left of the deck? So it's interesting to consider these things. And I mean, if you're ambitious enough to look through the code, and in the game, you could probably figure it out.

Josh Bryant: That's the thing. Even when those numbers were coming up, and I was playing that one game, at any point, when you lose you're, "Is this really fare? Is this completely random?" And I want somebody who really knows the code to at least be able to go in there and look at it and tell me, "Yeah, this is fair." Right I mean it's a-

Q: A confirmation.

Josh Bryant: One percent towards the house or whatever, but it's random-

Evan: That's right.

Q: Yeah.

Josh Bryant: [inaudible 00:11:30] I think that makes you feel a lot more comfortable, if you're playing, because you're playing a computer.

Q: Absolutely.

Evan: Exactly.

Josh Bryant: You got to know what the rules are.

Evan: And that's one of their biggest pitches right now, is that this is more fair than a casino, because it's open source, because it's decentralized. They can afford that because there's no overhead, it's just you're playing a computer or whatever. So it's interesting. I wanted to say one more thing about the economics thing you were talking about, especially with EOS dice, and I was talking to Zack Gall, some of our viewers might know who that is, this past weekend, we're in San Francisco. And he mentioned that there's a lot of people on these platforms who they're playing EOS bet, or EOS dice, or whatever, whichever one you prefer. And they're putting the risk all the way up to 97, as low as it goes. So you have to roll under a 97, or under a 98. I don't remember the exact number. And they're just betting one EOS, over and over. And every time they do that, they actually earn one bet, or one dice or one poker or whatever it is.

Q: Yeah.

Evan: And they're actually mining the native token so that they can stake that back into the game and earn dividends.

Q: Exactly.

Evan: But once the amount minted of that token runs out, now, all that volume of all those people who are just sitting there mining money is going to go down, it's going to go completely away. So a lot of this is not fake volume, but it's artificially inflated.

Q: Incentivized.

Evan: Yeah, it's incentivized volume. So once that volume goes away, now, you might see some of these betting platforms and the way that their token model is, since there seems to be a token economics focused episode. They might run out a run out of space with a model like that.

Q: Yeah, I think so. And I think that they're going to have to move on to whatever next gambling dApp they create, because it's easily recreated, right? You just create another token, you do the same model again, technically, you take one team make EOS bet, and then after that the token minting, just like I've said is is at 100%. You just move on and created again. So it is interesting. In another thing of note, Ethereum seems to have more games than gambling dApps, and you could see why. Again, if you're hitting one EOS every time for 1000 times it wouldn't make sense to do that on Ethereum. But I looked at a couple of these sites and Ethereum seems to have more games than gambling dApps.

Q: I think there's one in the top 20 that's a gambling dApp. So I'm interested to see as these platforms mature and the dApp ecosystem mature, is Ethereum going to be the platform for games or is EOS going to rise up and take the share of the game ecosystem as well? So those are things that keep me up at night. I like thinking about that. So please let us know what gambling dApps do you like? What dApps do you like in general? I know we are talking with Dallas Rushing from Karma tomorrow, or I guess today, in the YouTube world of tomorrow. But yeah, we really like dApps as they're coming out. We think they're developing part of the blockchain industry. So we're excited. So let us know what games you like. Let us know what apps you use, and yeah.

Evan: And you're actually going to start a series where you're covering dApps specifically, right?

Q: Yeah, definitely. I'm going to work with Evan, I'm going to work a little bit with Ryan and we're going to try to review these dApps as they come in and give a subjective view of what we think about each staff, because that's what's missing, right? You see the 24 hour users on these dApp listing sites but you don't get a subjective view of what is this dApp like.

Evan: Yeah, and a lot of depth too, I think what's missing is an easy explanation of the rules or an easy explanation of how everything works because there's some dApps I go on, and I play for the first time and I have no idea what's going on and I just leave because I'll place a bet or I'll play around and I lose my money and then I have no idea what's going on. A lot of these dApps out there if they had three minute explainer videos, it would help their case a lot and there's probably a place out there that would help them make three minute explainer videos.

Josh Bryant: I can't honestly think of who would do that.

Evan: What do you think Josh? Is there any companies out there that could help these dApp companies make three minute explainer videos?

Josh Bryant: I could think of a great one to do that, that makes very high quality, some of that content I think it is ICO Alert.

Evan: I think it is ICO.

Josh Bryant: And I was impressed with quality of the video.

Q: People were up in arms over that video.

Josh Bryant: That video was awesome.

Evan: Yeah. We got some we got some serious flak on YouTube from our bet dice commercial that we made. I think people thought that we got paid to make that video and I can tell you 100% we did not get paid to make that. And if you've ever seen our disclaimers for our email campaigns or I mean you guys have seen them on our reports. We have to say specifically in the email campaign or in the report how much we got paid. That's like nine paragraphs of disclaimer. We've got all this crazy shit, we hate it too, but we do it because legal tells us to do it.

Q: Yeah.

Evan: So we would never just push a video out without a disclaimer on it if we actually got paid. so all those YouTube haters man, one guy was hilarious, some guy said, I totally unsubscribed after he saw that dice video that we put out, and then someone else commented on it, was like, "I unsubscribed over that stupid ass Halloween costume video that everything EOS did." But it was hilarious because he's in the comments of a video that came out a week after the Halloween episode-

Q: He still subscribed.

Evan: So yeah, you either unsubscribed and are searching now giving us better analytics on search or you're still subscribed. So don't lie to us out there, folks. We know. So anyway, moving along, looks like you guys. I don't know which one of you guys threw the show notes together today. I appreciate it. But the next topic we wanted to cover today is the Newdex ecosystem. Now, this is the EOS specific one, right?

Q: Yeah, this is the EOS specific DEX. Something we stumbled upon about a week ago, but really gave it some thought over the past 48 hours was, what's going on with Newdex because if you go to Newdex and you just from a face value, look at the charts and look at what's going on there. It almost looks like a freaking binance chart, like in February of 2017. I mean 2018 you're literally seeing 40, 50 hundred 200% gains. Now it's against EOS, so it's not against Bitcoin or anything like that. But you're seeing massive gains, and my thought process here is that, and it's a little bit of a conspiracy theory, but nobody knows what's going on there yet. Obviously, we're pretty connected in the industry, and we know what's going on. Still, Newdex, unless you're a hardcore EOS guy, you're not going to know much about Newdex as a platform.

Evan: Right.

Q: I mean, just what's going on there with the pumps that are still there. Nobody knows what's going on there. And I think that's allowing what we saw last year which cryptocurrency, that's allowing that to happen again, on that platform.

Evan: Well, it was interesting to me when you showed me Newdex, and I looked at it and I saw all the coins on there. One was black, I think, was one of the big ones, and I was thinking, "Oh, man. I know I have some of these just from EOS airdrops." And then I went on eosflare which I hadn't been on, I mean, I don't check EOS flare every day. And eosflare now shows the dollar value of all your airdrops. So if you have a bunch of EOS sitting in an account, and you want to quantify the US dollar amount, I highly recommend going to eosflare.io.

Q: It is.

Evan: And from there, it'll actually show you all the airdrops you've got, and then we'll show you an actual US dollar figure quoted for what you have. So I think black right now is, is worth 25 cents US dollar per token, or at least it was yesterday. I don't know.

Q: It's around there still.

Evan: The market's pretty hostile today. But if you haven't checked on your airdrops in a while, and you're a big time EOS holder, go to eosflare.io type in your wallet address, or type in your public key, and from there you'll be able to see these airdrops are actually making people nice little earnings. So that's cool. It's good to see that in a market that's been really tormenting us all as [inaudible 00:19:45]-

Josh Bryant: I'm super interested in these exchanges. I think they're the future for digital assets.

Q: Yeah.

Josh Bryant: It's incredible. I put meta mask into my browser for the first time a couple of months ago. And I was just amazed, this is what people are going to use going forward to exchange assets, digital assets, binance, we're talking about token economics, right? B&B. They issued I think 200,000,000 total, and what they're doing is they're burning half of that over time. So you know the total supply is going to eventually be 100,000,000. And I'm really interested in decentralized exchanges too, like IDEX that I was talking about earlier, I looked up their numbers, they have a billion tokens that they issued, but there's currently 140 million in available supply, and so that leaves them with a good chunk of them in the company wallet right now, right? So what's that going to mean for the value-

Evan: And that's the Aurora token?

Josh Bryant: That's the Aurora token, yeah it's associated with IDEX, and then there are some other decentralized exchanges too like well, any of the [ZRX 00:20:49] layers, right? So that token is out there right now.

Evan: Yeah.

Josh Bryant: Coinbase and I'm not sure of the value, how that token would be valued. It's going to be more like a governance token, kybers and other decentralized exchange and the nodes, you're going to have to pay some kyber back into the system, some of the kyber tokens, they'll be burned over time. So all these different exchanges have different models, both for centralized versus decentralized, and then how their token's going to be used. So anytime you're going to be doing an investment you got to do your own research and to each one of those things to think about five, 10 years from now, is this token going to be more value than it is today and why? All right?

Evan: Right.

Josh Bryant: Think about those types of things. But the exchanges, I mean, they're so interesting, B&B the decentralized exchanges-

Evan: What's your top exchange that you use?

Josh Bryant: Probably well, to get into the system from fiat into crypto I go through Coinbase or Kraken.

Evan: Okay.

Josh Bryant: And then I like going on the binance.

Evan: So that's centralized, you're using the centralized models now, but you're looking forward to that decentralized revolution?

Josh Bryant: Yeah, but I use something like the IDEX, I use that, uses some smaller [inaudible 00:21:56]. It's super easy. You just bring up the website, your meta mask plugin is there, boom, you can start trading with somebody on this side of the world, and there's not even some central exchange.

Evan: You can trade directly out of your meta mask into the market on those-

Josh Bryant: Yeah, that's the thing, you maintain custody of your tokens. You're talking to somebody on the other side of the world.

Evan: Wow, I didn't know that.

Josh Bryant: That's how the decentralized exchange, that's where it's going.

Q: Yeah.

Josh Bryant: There isn't a Binance or Coinbase that's holding your tokens and custody for you, you hold the tokens in your wallet or in your ledger, and you can trade, so it's a total different model. And I could see it really picking up steam and getting popularity.

Q: There was a story that came out of, I don't know if it came out in New York, but IDEX stopped giving signups to people in New York. So if you're a resident of New York, I don't know if that's New York City, they did not allow you to trade on IDEX. So one of the jokes on Twitter was IDEX the I stands for isn't, because if you think about it, IDEX claims to be a decentralized exchange, and now they're blocking people from using that platform.

Evan: How do they block them? Was it an IP thing or-

Q: I don't know the exact way they did it, but I'm almost positive that you need to sign up to use the platform, and they just didn't allow signups from New York City. So again you're talking about a decentralized exchange, but there's a little bit of centralization there.

Josh Bryant: Yeah, it's all about how you define your terms, right? And they'll say this, they wouldn't say they're a completely decentralized exchange, but their thing is you maintain custody of your token, so that you can use their product.

Q: Okay.

Evan: Right.

Josh Bryant: In many ways they're still centralized, I think they want to move into being more decentralized over time by having nodes out there where the order books are held, and that kind of thing.

Q: Okay.

Josh Bryant: But yeah, just using that word centralized or decentralized, they're still vague terms, you really got to do your own research to figure out what's going on and couldn't exchange be shut down, right? Or as it's so totally decentralized that you have a hard time shutting something-

Q: Got it, okay. So it's more of a communication error, than it is like a error on IDEX's part-

Josh Bryant: I that word decentralized, yeah, it gets taken the wrong way, and she got to really figure out what exactly that means. In their case you maintain custody of the tokens-

Q: Interesting.

Josh Bryant: I mean they're doing KYC and AML and all the stuff that the SEC and our government wants financial institutions to do, I mean they want to be a real player in this space, right? If they want to do that and they're based in the US, they got to play by the rules.

Q: Yeah, Mike was saying something about the founder of EtherDelta getting I don't know if it was subpoenaed or getting indicted-

Evan: I think he got fined.

Josh Bryant: Yeah, he got fined 300 grand or something like that, but that's basically SEC saying, "Hey, we're coming out there."

Q: Yeah.

Josh Bryant: It's like let people know that they know what's going on, and if you're a US citizen, you're based in the US, right? You got to follow the laws of the country, if you want to run a business here.

Q: Yeah.

Josh Bryant: So it's going to apply to the exchanges.

Q: Got it. So I have a question then, because binance right now as everyone knows, dominates the centralized exchanges and they're the number one in volume usually, at any given moment if you look up volume for exchanges, they're number one. Why do you think Josh that they're going to move into the DEX world?

Josh Bryant: Well, I think that they see that model coming, and they don't want to be left behind, if it very quickly moves which the space moves so quickly. They don't want to be in a situation, I mean they came up quickly, right? When all the training started happening, and the boom started happening, there were other players who were in front of them, but because they were able to just quickly transform suddenly they were on the top of the heap, I don't think they want to be in a situation where things move so fast, they're left behind. So they have a product where they can not only have their centralized exchange, but also a decentralized exchange, and they've got that brand that they can extend into the decentralized exchange, they've got a popular token they could extend into that exchange. So I think it's a good move for them.

Q: Let's be honest, binance has so much money that they could do whatever they wanted. If binance started a movie production company, I wouldn't be surprised, honestly. So I think it is another way to validate at least for CZI to validate that B&B's a utility token because you did tell us-

Josh Bryant: Yeah, CZI was saying that they'll use that token as the gas fees on this new decentralized exchange. So over time that utility would rise if a lot of people ended up using that decentralized exchange-

Q: Nice.

Josh Bryant: [inaudible 00:26:09] binance exchanges.

Evan: It's very interesting.

Q: Yeah, I'd love to hear again any topics that we talked about on the actual podcast. We want to hear from you guys about what your favorite exchange is, why? Because those are conversations that we're not only going to bring up, but we'd like to talk about in the office, about who do our users use? It's nice to have the finger on the pulse there.

Evan: Yeah, I agree, I think binance was ... I mean, I was back in the days of Mt. Gox, getting burned on Mt. Gox. But trading on that, trading Dogecoin, I don't even remember what exchange I used back in the day, but those old exchanges was where I really learned about supply and demand, and buy and sell orders, and seeing in real time the spread and how if more sell orders come in, the price is going to go down and eat up those orders, and when I first used binance, a lot of people rag on the interface of binance, but I actually think it's perfect for what it does, the centralized version of binance. It's clear cut. It doesn't have to be this artistic, amazing UI UX thing. It's just plain and simple, "Here's the books, here's the orders. Bysell, you can do 50%, 25% of whatever your holdings are." I really enjoy using that interface-

Q: Sincere, gee, what was the interface like on Mt. Gox? Because I wouldn't have any idea.

Evan: I honestly couldn't even tell you. Like I said, because I started with crypto. That was the first time I ever saw an order book, was in crypto.

Q: Got it.

Evan: I had never traded stocks or anything before that, and then after I got burned because I mean I flipped into some dumb ass shitcoin in 2013, and got burned and I Dogecoin. But after that, I was, "Oh, well, let me look into stock trading, because now I get it, now I understand how buying and selling works." I mean, I was still just a kid in college, my dad worked in a brewery his whole life, he wasn't teaching me about market order limits or anything like that. So after that I open an E*TRADE account, I started trading on E*TRADE, and then I got into Weed Stocks, there was a little bubble there, and got burned again and then I was like, "All right, you know what."

Q: [inaudible 00:28:25] successful trader-

Evan: Yeah, so don't take financial advice from me. And then after that I got into, finally I was, "All right, let me just get into blue chip fucking stocks that aren't going to burn me hardcore."

Q: Is that apple stock?

Evan: Yeah, I actually did pretty good on US Steel trade and then Alcoa trade, I did all Pittsburgh industry stuff, and it was during the 2016 election and embargoes on foreign imports. So anyway, regardless of that, I honestly couldn't even tell you what ... I don't remember, because I only went on it once, basically to just. I was like, "How do I get rid of my Bitcoin and get Dogecoin?" And just from a Google step by step guide was, "Okay, go to Mt. Gox." And then I opened an account on Mt. Gox and then-

Q: Wow.

Evan: Yeah. I do remember though, that the Dogecoin wallet was like a desktop wallet on my computer. So it looked exactly like Bitcoin, it was pretty much a replica, Dogecoin, at least back then. I don't know if they've changed their source code a little bit, but it was a basically an exact replica of the Bitcoin source code. Well, sorry, before we get into the next topic, let's just take a super quick break right here because Q looks like he has to go to the bathroom-

Q: Oh my Gosh.

Evan: And then we'll be right back after this.

Q: I already did.

Evan: All right folks, we're back here for The Roundtable. We've got Josh Bryant here, the special guest, one of the biggest fans of the show gets to come on the show. Maybe if you're in the telegram, one day we'll invite you on the show. I don't know. That's getting a little bit too intense.

Q: All right.

Evan: So you said you had a big question you wanted to ask him during the break?

Q: Right, before we went to break I know he was talking about how he had his financial education pretty much started in crypto.

Evan: Right.

Q: So I wanted to ask Josh, financial education is a huge issue in the United States right now. Kids aren't getting the education they need, at least that's the view I hold. So what are you going to do with your kids? And how are you going to teach them about finance and accounting and things like that?

Josh Bryant: Well, I've always given my kids some allowance. So they have some money of their own and I've taught them that if they want things they're going to have to save for them, so they can't just expect to get it whenever they want it. So they've learned to save over time. They'll save up their allowance, they'll come back to me and exchange it for larger bills. Earlier today, I think I pulled a few ones out of my pocket and they were really [inaudible 00:30:47], those have been recycled, circulated through the system a few times as they've changed and then-

Evan: You handed me a one dollar bill earlier today, and it was so worn on the front that I thought it was fake.

Josh Bryant: Yeah, internal banking system in my house has gone through quite a few times. So they've learned how to save. And they've learned that they can't just get anything exactly when they want it. And I've also talked with them about investments. So I'm going to teach them about stocks, and what a stock is, and what a bond is, and the difference between the two and the importance to have savings in cash, but also investments, talk to them about what a 401k is, and mutual funds. These are conversations, I think not everybody necessarily has before they enter adulthood, but they need to know these basic things so that they're putting money away. And if they're working for a company that matches some percentage of what they put away in a retirement, that they're going up to that percentage, putting money away every month, so that they'll have some something there in their later years for themselves or for their family. And then now I mean, I really believe that crypto is going to be a new asset class. And so I've sat down with my oldest son and I talk to him about crypto works, we were talking about hashing, and-

Evan: How old is he?

Josh Bryant: He's 15.

Evan: Okay.

Q: Did he understand the concepts?

Josh Bryant: Yeah, he did. He is really bright and was very interested in it. My younger son was really more interested, we're going to talk about mining in a little bit. But he was more interested. He is 12 and he just really wanted to know how we were making money with the mining rig. But the my older son I was talking with him about crypto and really just all the things that go into it. And right now, to get into crypto it's not super easy to get into, you have to understand it and really spend some time thinking about, I think that [inaudible 00:32:40] is going to get a lot easier in the future, but I was teaching them about how crypto works and the limited supply of a particular currency, and the network that maintains this currency, how the miners all work and everything.

Evan: Yeah.

Josh Bryant: So I was showing him those things as well.

Q: Nice.

Josh Bryant: But I think it's really important to have those conversations with your kids while they're still in your house, so that when they get out into adulthood, they have at least a little bit of preparation and are comfortable with it. And just understanding the importance of savings, of waiting to buy things, not getting into too much debt, which is super easy to do. I think in our society.

Evan: God, all you got to do is go to school.

Josh Bryant: Yeah. Right. So thinking about the trade offs, right? If you are going to go into debt, what's it for? Is it for an asset? Is it for an education? How far? How much debt are you going to take on? All those things you have to think about. Because I think a lot of people have been saddled with debt, right?

Q: Absolutely.

Josh Bryant: They don't necessarily want or they didn't realize they were going to have that much, and then it's really tough to pay it back overtime. And the prices just keep going up, right? The price of education keeps going up-

Evan: I could do a whole podcast on that [crosstalk 00:33:51].

Josh Bryant: Yeah, we could talk about that quite a bit.

Q: Yeah.

Josh Bryant: And how crypto might fit into that in the future, and already is today.

Q: The endowments at these universities are absolutely insane.

Josh Bryant: Yeah, I mean, we've been on some college tour. So I'm right in the middle of that with my oldest daughter, and so we're looking [inaudible 00:34:08], and that kind of thing. And yeah, I mean, even since I went to school, yeah, I mean, it's more than doubled.

Evan: Well, and I think I've said it on the show before, when you have a bank that can give out in discretionary loans that have to be 100% be paid back with no risk, why wouldn't they want to jack the price up as much as possible.

Josh Bryant: Right, if there's not a strong limit on the money supply that doesn't keep the prices down, right? And that was part of Satoshi's putting Bitcoin together right? Genesis block and Bitcoin that says that the banks were just bailed out, right? And so it attempts to put some limit on the money supply, now you can still have a lot of different currencies, you can still have a lot of ... There's fiat and many other ones, but there is a limit there if people agreed or use a particular currency together. And I think just that in itself has a value in keeping the inflation rate down. I mean, things used to be tied to gold. Right? [inaudible 00:35:01] you will about gold. It's something that is more limited in supplies and helps keep that inflation down, and-

Evan: Yes, that's true.

Josh Bryant: I mean, we could have a whole show on that, right?

Q: Yeah, definitely.

Evan: Yeah. Because I usually personally, I'm someone who bashes gold when they say we should go back to the gold standard, and I'm like, "What can you do with gold right now?" Nobody has any idea. I always say, we always play the scenario, I've done with you before, maybe not with you. Maybe I have I say, "If the world went to shit today, and all computers shut off, and all electricity went out, one water, two ammunition." Those are my two things. Gold is nowhere near the top, because I can't eat a brick of gold, I can't drink a brick of gold, and I can't go out and do anything with it. But that's actually a good point I never considered is if you fix money to the supply of gold, at least it will keep that from inflating unbelievably like the US dollar has. So that's an interesting perspective.

Josh Bryant: Yeah, and I think that was a big driving force for the creation of Bitcoin, it was to try and provide some type of limit on inflation and the central banks that are able to create money at will, and increase that money supply, which makes our education and real estate and everything else a lot more expensive over time, and dilutes the value of our savings.

Evan: Right.

Josh Bryant: So that was a big driver for putting that point together. A lot of people think that over time people are going to see that value more and more in crypto.

Evan: And do you talk about this kind of stuff, when you are educating your sons or your daughter on crypto? Because it's so easy to get lost in the how-

Josh Bryant: Yeah, these are my family man, they hear it all from me, all topics, they get it all from me.

Evan: You probably got some respect when your kids knew you were working with crypto, I'm sure it makes the rounds in the high school.

Josh Bryant: My youngest son had to go in and talk to school about what his parents did and their jobs and everything and he had to bring him props.

Evan: What did you bring in for you?

Josh Bryant: He asked me to buy him off of Amazon a little bitcoin.

Q: Bitcoin, nice.

Josh Bryant: Like one of those gold coins, and he brought that and then showed it to the class and tried to explain that his dad was in crypto.

Q: Awesome.

Evan: That's amazing.

Josh Bryant: That was fun.

Evan: Yeah, I think with crypto, anybody even, I mean, I was much older than your son, I think, when I first heard about Bitcoin, like I said I was in college. And there's so many questions you have at once like the how does it work? And the what is this? But the why the core philosophy behind why is this valuable? Why is crypto valuable to the world? Bitcoin. That's the most important part, where if you can really get that, and it might not be something that even that your kids get now, but down the road and especially because their generation that's going to live through crypto almost always being around for their lifetimes, it'll be interesting to see that generation as they get older, really start to understand and embrace that.

Josh Bryant: Yeah, they're more comfortable with everything digital, right?

Q: Digital, exactly.

Josh Bryant: And they're going to be more comfortable with digital money.

Q: They're going to be comfortable, and it's tough because mostly males play video games. But again, we talk about video games and games being the reason for adoption, but they're going to understand digital assets because the games that they play and the things that they're buying within the game are digital assets.

Josh Bryant: Absolutely.

Q: So they're going to be very much more comfortable with the digital asset part of cryptocurrency, whereas people that weren't around for the internet, and it came about when they were 50 or 60, they have problems understanding, that can be another whole world.

Josh Bryant: My youngest son who plays Fortnite, he wants to buy the skins for Fortnite, right?

Q: There it is.

Josh Bryant: And he needs coins to do it, right? So what's going on? There's fiat [crosstalk 00:38:25] into crypto to buy him his Fortnite skins, right? So they're familiar with it.

Q: And he can sell that back for money, I'm sure he could sell that within the system.

Josh Bryant: He was telling me the other day that he's been playing for a while, and he has this older skin I guess this uniform, and he was saying that it's really popular, and he was waiting to play a game in this virtual room, and all these other players were coming around to see his popular. So yeah, even the skins of the uniforms appreciate in value over time.

Evan: Wow.

Q: Exactly.

Evan: So do you pay attention a little bit to that stuff, because you see the correlation with crypto when they're playing or explaining themselves to you?

Josh Bryant: Yeah, I talk to my kids about everything. And so we've talked about crypto, and finance and business and you need to tailor it to the age of your child, right? I mean my youngest who is playing Fortnite, doesn't want to get into the details of M2 money supply, but he understands Fortnite skins and how he needs my credit card to get the coins in the game, to buy them.

Q: Yeah, and how some are more rare than others. If you have a really common skin that everyone gets at level one, it's not worth anything, right? But once you get to that level or to whatever level he got that skin at, or whatever he had to pay for that older skin, that's all the stuff that you're talking about.

Evan: So pardon my ignorance, but there's actually a peer-to-peer system, market system in Fortnite. If I have a skin that's popular, I can sell it to another player?

Q: If it's not within Fortnite it's within other games. So for example like steam, maybe you don't-

Evan: I know steam, I know it's a platform-

Q: Yeah, they have peer-to-peer transfer. So I bought items in game from other players on their marketplace for a certain amount of money-

Evan: And then they either appreciate or devalue or whatever and then you can sell them to someone else?

Q: Yeah, the thing that blockchain gives to all of this is the non-fungibility, right? I don't know if that's an actual ... Fungibility is the word, I guess. But the non-fungible nature of the asset. So if you're thinking about that Fortnite asset that was created by a centralized system or company and they can pull that away at any instant. They could say, "No, you're not going to have that." And then two, another player probably still has something like that. Whereas if you had a non fungible token in a game that was popular, one the game developer wouldn't be able to take it away from you at a moment's notice, and two it's probably rare. So it's like that is yours.

Evan: Right.

Q: It has a ding in it, just like anything else that you would own. Does that make sense?

Evan: Yeah, it has like a unique identifier on it that-

Q: Exactly.

Evan: It means it has got its ownership history, it's got it's whatever.

Q: Yeah.

Evan: You know that's a one of a kind thing actually.

Q: Absolutely.

Evan: Even if it's in a series, I guess it can still be a one of a kind thing.

Q: Absolutely.

Evan: Yeah, it's interesting stuff. So let's go back to the household here Josh, because we're wholesale stories here yeah I hear that you've got some mining rigs setup for yourself in the basement there?

Josh Bryant: I did, I've always wanted to mine a cryptocurrency, and I just had never done it, and so I thought, "Well I'm going to try my hand on here." So I bought a kit to do this with.

Q: What?

Josh Bryant: And it all came to the house, and I've taken computers apart before, so I know the basics of it, but I started to put it together and I'm like, "Oh, I'm not sure if I'm going to be able." So I had somebody at the office, Pete, he came over and helped me assemble the processor into the motherboard and everything and got it up and running, and I got a couple of cards on there. And so I'm mining Ethereum right now.

Q: Nice.

Josh Bryant: And I've joined a pool and it's really slow, you don't earn it very quickly. I think I have .003 Ethereum or something.

Q: How long is it going to take you to re-up or-

Josh Bryant: Well, it depends on how many cards you put into the mining rig, as to how much hash power you can generate, because that increases the amount of shares that you get when you're in a pool. But I kind of got bitten by the bug, so I bought another kit.

Q: Oh, God.

Josh Bryant: And I put together myself, because I learned that it's hard to mix, the Nvidia and the AMD processors. I put them in separate rigs. Now I have to rigs that are running in my basement. And my youngest son came down into the basement as I was sitting there working out the other day, he's like, "Dad, you're a hacker, what's going on down here?" But it's cool. I like it. It's been fun doing that. I'd like to mine some other stuff too that interest me. It's like a hobby, but I like it.

Q: That's awesome.

Evan: I think that's really cool. What does the wife say when she sees you down there playing with all the hardware?

Josh Bryant: I'll tell you, she came down, she looked around at all this equipment I've got set up and the wires and everything and she knows that I'm in crypto and everything and the first thing she said was, "This looks a little fishy to me. What's going on down here?" She said, "What if you do something that crashes the whole network?" I'm like, "I'm not going to crash the network I'm not going to crash Etherium by running these mining rig down here."

Q: Someone's crashing the network right now, right? Someone's crashing the prices at least.

Evan: Oh my God, yeah we are having a rough day out on the market, we've been trying to avoid price talk all day on the episode. So Josh, another thing that I wanted to ask you about while you're on the show, and this will probably be our last topic we can wrap it up here, you're a big proponent of Monero, and now that's probably one of the coins, I mean one of many that I haven't really taken a deep dive into, but we had a little bit of time to talk today about privacy and how it's becoming more and more prevalent that people need to be private, Alexa is recording us if Siri Isn't. We've got spies everywhere, and we've got the credit rating system in China which is probably already taking place in the US, we just don't know about it yet. So what do you see from Monero, explain it, what do you think are the benefits of it?

Josh Bryant: Yeah, Monero is one of the older cryptocurrencies that's out there. It's one of the few that wasn't a fork off of Bitcoin, they use an algo called CryptoNight, I think it's called CryptoNight, crypto, something like that. It's a little bit different than Bitcoin but it is private, it focuses on privacy. The thing I like about that is with Bitcoin you can go out, and if you know somebody's wallet address, you can see right how many bitcoins they have, how many assets they have, there's a lot like that on these blockchains, where if you know an address, you can see how much money somebody has essentially in their bank account. And I think privacy is really, really important.

Josh Bryant: I mean, privacy is not just for criminals. I think that privacy is a human right and it's very much tied into our liberty and so I think it's important to have that baked into our cryptocurrencies that are coming up. I mean, when Satoshi put together Bitcoin, it was like a proof of concept, right? I mean, there's a lot to improve on, I think, even with what he did. And I think what Monero has done is put strong privacy into crypto. They use something called, I think it's called [inaudible 00:45:06] and they are able to create that privacy within their coins.

Josh Bryant: So it's a crypto that I like, I think long term people are going to more and more see the benefits of that. Just from the fact that if you're going to put money in your bank account, that's essentially what these cryptos are. They are there like distributed ledgers, they're distributed worldwide banking systems. Do you want somebody to know how much you have in your account? Do you want somebody you know what you're spending your money on?

Evan: Yeah.

Josh Bryant: I think people will over time value that privacy and so you'll see hopefully more of it baked into other currencies, well, besides just Monero.

Evan: So if I wanted to send someone a Monero, say you and I both have a Monero account, and you wanted to send me Monero, how would it work? Would I send you an address that would be always mine, permanently mine or does it generate an address just for that transaction?

Josh Bryant: Yeah, it's similar to Bitcoin where you have wallet addresses. So if I was going to send you Monero, you would tell me what your wallet address is, and I would send it to you. But when it gets sent over to you, somehow it gets combined with a bunch of other transactions. So it's impossible to know that I'm actually sending it to you and that I'm not sending it to Q.

Evan: Okay.

Josh Bryant: If somebody else was sending money over to Q but it got combined in the middle and mixed up, and so you can't track-

Evan: So is there a way for me to ... Other than just communicating with you to know, there's no way for me to check on, like a block explorer or anything, that might transaction went through?

Josh Bryant: No, I don't think there's a block explorer, because there's no way to know how much is within each wallet.

Q: That is one of the issues that I have with it, because I like the idea obviously, and I honestly would love to put my money into something that's private, because I do agree that privacy is that right. But at the same time, what happens when the IRS gets really involved and they see that I moved money out of Monero, and put it into my bank account?

Josh Bryant: Well, they have something called a view key, that you can create and you could give to the IRS. So if you were being investigated, you give it to them and they could essentially look into your bank account. So that capability is there, and it's being built into other privacy coins too. So I don't want the main purpose of this to be evading the IRS or know tax authorities.

Q: Yeah.

Josh Bryant: I think there should be still a way to comply with the laws and the regulations of the land that you live in, but at the same time I don't think things should be so wide open so that if I know somebody bitcoin wallet address from a web page where they're asking for tips, I can go and find out how much [crosstalk 00:47:43].

Evan: Right.

Q: Agreed, yeah, I love that. I totally agree with all of that. That's happening with data now too, right? So being able to use your data but only the data that you want to be seen by other people, and actually get paid for that. I love what the blockchain's doing for that type of ... I wouldn't call it a personal right, but you get what I'm talking about.

Evan: I think it's interesting and I think it's one of many coins that as hopefully the market turns around today, is in a great day to think that. But I think high tide is going to rise all ships, and we'll see some of these tokens that come out of ICOs earlier in the year that were total bullshit are going to go away. But there's so many underlying problems with the way that banking systems work, and data privacy works and even just ownership and philosophy of who owns things work, that there's no way in my mind that these things won't eventually succeed in the long run. So I guess that's about it for us. We're going to wrap this episode up. If you guys got any plugs or anything you want to say before the end of the episode? Josh, we loved having you on.

Josh Bryant: Thanks for having me on the show guys.

Evan: You finally get to see it from the side, are you going to show the wife and kids the episode?

Josh Bryant: Absolutely. We're going to go on YouTube and check it out.

Evan: They're going to say you're a YouTube star now.

Josh Bryant: Maybe.

Evan: Well, I guess we would have to be YouTube stars first.

Q: We're not YouTube stars. Damn it, I told my girlfriend that we're YouTube stars.

Evan: Well, hopefully she doesn't come to the ICO [inaudible 00:49:10]-

Josh Bryant: I'll have everybody in the family hit like.

Evan: There we go.

Q: [crosstalk 00:49:13], All right. Then we should have more likes than we usually get.

Evan: Yeah, exactly. Three more, usually we have only one. So now we'll have four.

Q: Yeah.

Evan: So once again, ICO Roundtable here. Go into our telegram. Let us know next week if you want to see some token economics. It's going to be a pretty awesome episode. And then it's going to be Thanksgiving next week already. So the year is flying by folks. We appreciate you always like, comment, subscribe, smack the bell, or whatever you have to do. We appreciate it. Signing off.

Q: Yeah, later guys. See you.


Have any thoughts?

Feel free to share your honest response on The Roundtable Telegram!

Join The Roundtable


Topics: Cryptocurrency, Podcast, Eos, Roundtable, Podcasting, NewDex